Speaker 1 00:00:12 Hello, welcome to the roundhouse podcast with Paul Soro of Wichita state university's strategic communications. Today, we are gonna introduce shocker fans to Ryan Horn. Ryan is the new strength and conditioning coordinator at Wichita state. He will oversee the department and he will work with the men's basketball team. Ryan comes to Wichita state after almost two years as special operations, strength and conditioning specialist at KBR, which is a science technology and engineering company. Before that he spent six years at wake forest as director of athletic performance, and was also at Tulsa VCU Liberty and Robert Morris. He has degrees from shepherd university in West Virginia and from VCU. So Ryan let's start, uh, you played football east Stroudsburg and James Madison. How did that experience shape your career path?
Speaker 2 00:01:05 It's really where it all started. Uh, I remember my 10th grade year going to a football camp at the university, Kentucky. I had a father that was at everything. Every practice took me to every camp. And I remember him sitting on the back of a pickup truck reading the newspaper like he always did. And I remember we had this module there where we could spend time with the strength conditioning coach as a part of the camp. I'd always been into training, went up to the individual or the coach at the time. And I, you know, asked him what his position group was. And he said, young man, I'm the strength conditioning coach. You know, I helped prepare and train these athletes. And I remember just thinking the back of my mind that I didn't even know there's a career where you could do that. So I walked out of the facility, I went right up to my dad's pickup truck.
Speaker 2 00:01:47 He put the newspaper down and I said, this is what I want to do that again. He didn't know what it was either, but he said, we're gonna figure it out. So that's kind of where it all started. You know, you grow up playing sports, uh, you grow up training and preparing it's an integral part of that training process. He was able to play football in college, uh, found out I was a little bit more successful at preparing for the sport than I was actually playing it at that level, had dealt with some injuries and had the transition away from the game. But I think that experience was crucial because it gave me an appreciation for being on both sides, knowing what it took from the training, but also how to connect as a coach and what all goes into making sure you can safely and effectively prepare student athletes. So it really catapulted me into this career and what I've been doing for the majority of my life.
Speaker 1 00:02:36 You played fullback, is that correct?
Speaker 2 00:02:39 Yes, I did. So in high school, uh, by my sophomore year, I started lifting weights and I went from about 180 pounds to about 220 pounds. Um, so I basically had had matured relatively early, but was lucky enough to, to not have to block as much and carry the ball. So as a linebacker and offensive lineman, before that, it's, it's not a bad thing to score some touchdowns and get some love. So that was a welcome change of pace, but yeah, full back linebacker, really whatever I could play and get in, that's what I was gonna do.
Speaker 1 00:03:10 So you talked about this a little bit. Tell us more about your path into strength and conditioning as a, as a career.
Speaker 2 00:03:17 Yeah, the, the, the career, especially even in the early two thousands, I think it was still relatively new. Um, there's a lot of coaches in the country, a lot of competent coaches in the country, but there really aren't a lot of positions available at any given time. So when I went to shepherd university finishing up my degree, my wife and I were planning on getting married. Um, we just had our first son, so it was a pretty crucial time in my life. And I remember putting a bunch of phone calls out, trying to find a bunch of positions. Didn't really know anyone had kind of motivated myself to go to conferences and try to meet people and was lucky enough to meet an individual by the name of Todd hammer who gave me my first internship at Robert Morris, which also left, uh, led me to my first graduate assistant position at Virginia Commonwealth Commonwealth university.
Speaker 2 00:04:08 So that was like my connection there. And that's what kind of catapulted me into the field. Um, so you got a new wife, you got a new baby. It's not always great to tell your wife that you're gonna be an intern and a graduate assistant at that time. Um, but because of my wife and because of my family, they were an integral part to be able to support me so I could pursue this path. So that's really how I got into it. Other than that came down to, to coaching, putting yourself in really good opportunities, having great athletes to work around the way as well as staff that mentored me and took chances on me and supported me. And that led me here.
Speaker 1 00:04:43 You've let us write into the question. Tell us about your family.
Speaker 2 00:04:47 Family's everything. Um, you know, I think we speak a lot about work life balance, but those two things should really never be an issue because you can't really balance 'em. So I've been lucky to have a true coach's wife. My kids have grown up in the field and in the profession and without their support, which is unwavering. There's no way I would be where I'm at today. So my wife, Ashley Horn, uh, we've been together since eighth grade of middle school. Um, we've been married since 2007, so we've known each other for a little while. I don't think anybody knows me better than her. Uh, I have a son Landon, who's 15 gonna be 16 in August, and I have my daughter Addison. Um, who's gonna turn 11 in June.
Speaker 1 00:05:32 What attracted you to Wichita state
Speaker 2 00:05:35 Years ago? I was at the university of Tulsa with coach Manning and we made a trip to Wichita. Didn't really know a whole bunch about Wichita state university. I just know we were gonna go play a game there. I remember pulling into the arena, walking out onto the floor and immediately just being overcome with the energy of the building. Uh, in 2012 and 13, that was a pretty good team. You guys had, uh, the crowd, the energy, the passion. You could just tell that shocker fans just, they just lived it, they breathed it and just the environment and just the electricity in the room was just undeniable. So that was my first exposure to which it's all state university. We went on the bus, uh, was a good experience in the sense that I got to feel. It wasn't really happy with the score. Um, that's something I still live with now. <laugh> so it was, uh, I wouldn't say it was necessarily competitive on, on the scoring aspect of it, but it left a mark on me. Um, the people, the community, the support, ultimately, that's what you really want to be a part of. You want to deal with great athletes. You want to deal with great staff and you want to be surrounded by a community and have support where everybody's on page on the same page and really supporting the university and the team. And that's what really attracted me to it.
Speaker 1 00:06:58 Yeah. So those were in the days where Wichita state and Tulsa were non-conference opponents. I'm looking at score up that would've been November 28th, 2012, shockers 180 6 to 60. Uh, I can see where yeah, where the crowd and everything would've made, uh, an impression to you. So now it is 2022. What's your view of, of Wichita state and what made this, you know, a place you wanted to be at?
Speaker 2 00:07:24 I mean, I think really from the moment I stepped on campus, the evolution and the changes that have happened on campus from a facility standpoint, from improving and increasing the student athlete experience just from even when I went to, went to breakfast, um, you know, there's shocker logos, and t-shirts everywhere. We were greeted at breakfast. It just has this family and community support system. That's in place. That's highly attractive for a coach with a family, but even the vision for the program and the department and where Wichita state university wants to go. When it comes to mitigating injury risk for their athletes and proving sport performance, it just felt like a really good fit. Um, there's currently a really solid staff in place with coaches that are doing a phenomenal job building and supporting their athletes. And that's just something I wanted to be a part of. And it just felt like a really good fit.
Speaker 1 00:08:26 So you started in this career 2007 at Robert Morris. Describe the changes. Let's start with technology over that. Uh, roughly 15 years you've been in the, in the business.
Speaker 2 00:08:38 Yeah, really sports science and, and sport technology is something that evolves, you know, almost on a yearly, weekly and, and daily basis. The, the field of strength conditioning. What makes it really special is that it's constantly evolving, not only with the student athletes, you have the honor to serve and support every day, but also with the tools, the resources and support and things that we can now be able to quantify both subjectively and objectively. It's put coaches in a really good spot where you have some clarity when you're trying to build this 360 degree athlete, you know, early on in the, in the field and in my career, most of that happened on the weight room floor on the field. But when you're really trying to bridge the gap with the technical and tactical demands of the sport, you have to be able to measure and manage that you have to be able to quantify what the exact demands are of a sport in order to effectively prepare your athletes for it.
Speaker 2 00:09:42 So I think that's a situation as a coach where you can kind of aim small and Ms. Small and understand that any equals one, um, we're constantly putting stress on athletes. They have stress from an academic standpoint, they have stress in their personal lives and from an athletic standpoint. So stress is stress. Now, how do we see how athletes not only respond to that stress, but how do they adapt to it, how they adapt to it will determine how they perform, how we mitigate injury, risk, how we increase performance, and then understanding as well that N equals one, we've had teams where you can have a very similar practice, but the cost of doing business from a physiological standpoint differs from individual to individual based on training, age training history and how long they've been in the program. So I think technology in general from a broad sense has been a huge benefit to coaches because it provides clarity in that training process and helps to make sure we are targeting specific adaptations at the right time. And we are putting our athletes in the chance to not only be able to be successful, but sustain it as well.
Speaker 1 00:10:49 So nutrition has long been important. And I know Wichita ate has put a lot of work into fueling stations and getting the right kinds of, of food into, into people throughout the day. Sleep seems to be an area that's grown more and more prominent in recent years in, in this field. H how do you work with athletes in those two areas?
Speaker 2 00:11:09 It's absolutely crucial. I think as strength, conditioning coaches and coaches in general, we do a phenomenal job of working athletes, putting stress on 'em applying pressure to 'em, but you have to have a human first approach and then a athlete. Second. So the human always has to come first. So when we have this 360 degree approach to training, we're looking at the environmental constraints. We're looking at technical and tactical skills. We're trying to improve their preparedness, which is their physical capability with sleep, hydration, nutrition, and those intervention strategies. That's where we're trying to improve their readiness on a day to day basis and how they recover. And that tells us what they can do and what they can maximize from their overall level of preparedness. And then we're also dealing with the psychological and emotional toll of what playing collegiate sports is. So what this 360 degree approach, we're trying to manage all of these physical, environmental competitive, and psychological and emotional events to put these athletes in more importantly, these people in a place to be successful, the most impactful, impactful, and effective tools available are the cheapest, which is sleep, which is hydration, which is nutrition.
Speaker 2 00:12:31 These are all controllables and non-negotiables that help athletes effectively recover to develop and to be able to sustain performance over a long period of time, as well as in the short term. So I think it's absolutely crucial if we were building a pyramid, the bigger the base, the higher, the peak, those things belong at the base of that pyramid, cuz those determine how our athletes are going to adapt and respond to the training. So it's absolutely crucial the vision for the department, the really push and to really instruct athletes to be a pro. Now I think we talk about wanting to get to the next level, no matter what the sport is. But as a student athlete, you have an opportunity with the resources and intervention strategies that are in place to do that right now, at this moment, you don't wanna wait for that opportunity or when do you get to that moment to start doing those things? So our job is to put athletes in a position where they can have the tools they need, have the resources available and the educational system in place to allow them to do that now. And I think that's a huge part in our development and it'll be a huge part of what we try to educate student athletes on moving forward.
Speaker 1 00:13:49 So you will be here soon to, to start working. Uh, tell us about your, the first meeting with the basketball team. What will that look like? Do you have a script prepared? Do you have two or three bullet points that you want them to walk outta that meeting imprinted on their mind?
Speaker 2 00:14:05 First things first, we gotta be able to connect with the kids before we can communicate with them. You have to be able to develop a relationship before you expect or demand results. As far as me as a coach's concerned, they need to know it's about them. If we put the athlete first, everything else is going to take care of itself. Me as a person and as a coach, I'm relentlessly positive and unapologetically demanding. The first thing we want to do is learn each other's names to develop a relationship, to get to know where they came from and where they plan to go to understand what they think they need to do to improve their performance both on and off to field or court. These are all conversations when you're trying to instruct these athletes, it's not my program, it's their program. And we play a process in setting that up for them to be successful, but also at the same time, to be clear and explicit with what our standards are, as far as how we're going to train, how we're gonna be pros now, how are we gonna approach our day to day?
Speaker 2 00:15:09 You don't want to use a ton of cliches and throw a bunch of words around that don't really have meaning you want to show them. I truly believe that athletes reciprocate and people reciprocate and reflect what you project out. So when they walk through the door, they need to feel my passion. They need to feel my energy. They need to know that we love 'em so we can lean on 'em. But at the same time, we need to give them a process that's worth buying into. I think a lot of times we explain that you have to buy into the process. You have to invest, but you also have to show them a return on that investment. And it means putting things in place where they have no excuse not to develop when it comes to recovery, mobility, flexibility, training, equipment support inside and outside of the facility.
Speaker 2 00:16:01 These are all things that we need to understand where these, as the athletes have been, we need to understand where we want them to go, but I have to be able to meet them with where they are. And then once we're there, we can be where our feet are and then we can progress. So as far as the meeting is concerned, uh, I believe that authenticity is appreciated. I believe that we can work and put them in a situation where we're trying to invest every single day to work us towards what that ultimate goal is, which is to put athletes in a position to be successful and create the best versions of themselves. And that's why coaches do what they do. And that's why we're here.
Speaker 1 00:16:41 So you hit on something that is really important to that job and, and maybe goes under the radar. At some point, strength coaches play such an important role because they spend so much time with the, uh, with the athletes. So I think strength coaches can turn into a, a, a go between the sympathetic ear, a motivator parental figure. How do you approach that part of your job that doesn't involve weights and treadmills and strength bands, but is, can be really important.
Speaker 2 00:17:10 You know, I, I always giggle a little bit when people call us weight coaches and I've tried to coach 45 pound weights my whole entire career, but they've never moved. Um, we don't coach weights. We don't coach strength. We don't coach conditioning. We're trying to improve an athlete's physical, preparedness and readiness. And that starts with the relationships that starts from being able to connect with these student athletes, from having the right playlist, to understanding what's going on in their lives, to understanding their background, strength and conditioning coaches have a phenomenal pulse. I think of where a team and a student athlete is at. So that vulnerability to me is a weapon, not a weakness. And I believe that's where the trust comes from. So you have to be vulnerable with these kids. You have to put them in a position where you are giving them feedback.
Speaker 2 00:18:08 You're holding them accountable, but it's coming from a place of experience, not from a place of judgment. So I truly believe that that respect, that credibility, those relationships are why I do what I do. I'm always gonna put the people before the program and then the programming's gonna take care of itself, but we have to be consistent. And we have to be relentless with developing those relationships and developing those process because the, in the end, you know, I need athletes to coach athletes don't necessarily, always need coaches to be athletes. So I think we need to understand that this is an honor. It's something that is a integral part of that process, but our athletes are here to perform, to achieve goals on the field or court, not only at Wichita state university, but also lifelong with whatever goals they want to do. We need to be a part of that to make sure that we're, I not only developing kids while they're with us at Wichita state, but also for the next step and wherever that may take them, that's something that's a sustainable and lifelong effort. So that's it. So I think that every conversation we have on the weight room, every team meal, every practice during a warmup on the plane, on the bus, these are the conversations that really build that trust and credibility. And I expect a 100% lean and dive into it and get it done.
Speaker 1 00:19:36 I know the music playlist is a big deal in a, uh, in a, in a weight room. How do you go about deciding who gets to pick or what gets played?
Speaker 2 00:19:45 Well, you have to have a pulse. You have to be able to go on whatever music streaming service you want. I put a lot of effort to make sure that we're creating an environment that facilitates and fosters that competitive energy that we want. And that's also situational. We'll throw some old school stuff on there once in a while just to get a giggle and get a laugh. But we also know when it's time to work, use music is a tool. Um, it's also an anchor and a connection point to be able to develop a relationship with the kid, to know what he likes to listen to, or he or she likes to listen to. It's a conversation piece. It's a way to develop a relationship. It's another vantage point. So I take that very seriously. I do take requests, but I'm also really big on having that playlist set cuz once we push play, we just want to go ahead and go, but you have to know the vibe and the temperature of the room and to be a thermostat, to be able to change that temp. Sometimes music can be a really powerful tool to do that.
Speaker 1 00:20:43 Do you have a favorite strength and conditioning song, a staple, something you think always is, is pretty appropriate.
Speaker 2 00:20:50 Always that always changes. You know, I, most of my stuff that I'm gonna listen to myself personally is probably gonna come before the year 2000, uh, the old golden ages. I like to consider it. Now we're gonna have arguments with the players. Who's the top, you know, artists of all time. It's just like debating whether you want to pick LeBron James or Michael Jordan. And who's this, you know, we can have that debate all day long. It's very subjective. Uh, as far as power songs are concerned, I'm not as concerned with myself as I am with the, with the athletes that I train. So we we'll figure that out. And when that needs to play, we'll be able to play it. But it's always changing. Music's a very dynamic thing. So it's always changing.
Speaker 1 00:21:30 So you've worked with NBA players, John Collins of the Atlanta Hawks would be most prominent. What, what characteristics stick out about a, a, a person like that as far as, you know, the work ethic and how they get to where they are.
Speaker 2 00:21:45 Yeah. Whether it's, whether it's John Collins or it's anyone else that we had the pleasure of training both in the NBA overseas, there's a lot of similarities in the sense that I feel like those individuals have a process based mindset and they maximize the mundane. They maximize the moment from foam rolling to stretching, to treatments, to recovery, to nutrition, the ones that I've had, the pleasure and distinct honor of helping support. They had a lot of those similarities in place. They were some of the best guys on the floor, but they were also some of the most productive outside of what everybody didn't see, which is in the weight room. After hours in the dining hall, they were maximizing the mundane moments. They knew were gonna have a tremendous impact. All those individuals that you've mentioned, especially someone like John Collins, they made themselves into and put themselves in that position. Uh, and I was very grateful to have an opportunity to help support that goal, but it's not sexy. Simple's not easy. They were just relentlessly consistent day to day session to session, work out to work out that consistency was something that stood out to me, where they leveraged and maximized every intervention strategy they were given. They did that before they took that next step. And I think that's absolutely critical and crucial to development.
Speaker 1 00:23:15 So over the last, I guess I would say 10 years, uh, the site of a strength coach out on the court as the basketball teams are warming up and he's helping them, uh, you know, with the foam rollers, with the bands, all those kind of things, that's become really common. What do you pack when you go on the road with, with the basketball team?
Speaker 2 00:23:35 Yeah. I don't know. If's gonna be really happy about my list. Uh we've to its whatever's athletes, to the floor, our job as strength, conditioning coaches, to put our athletes in a position to be successful. The hay is already in the barn. You're trying to manage emotional, psychological. You're trying to make sure that they're in the right flow state to perform at the highest level possible. So whether that's having your foam rollers, your bands, it's having the things that athletes have at home that really something that they lean on in their preparation, you want to have those things available. It may even be a new tele Uncrustable that I've had to go to multiple publics to find, to get, because a guy went 20 and 15 because he had that Uncrustable and we need that flavor. I'll go as far as I need to, to make sure that there's no doubt in our athletes minds, that they're ready to perform and ready to play.
Speaker 2 00:24:36 So I think before a game and during a game, you're just trying not to get in the way and not to mess things up and to give athletes the most stable environment and support system that they can. So they know they can lean on you in that moment and ultimately give them the support they need to perform. So that's our job. You see it, you see coaches running around, you see 'em warming, 'em up. You see 'em getting excited on the bench. All that is, is an expression of our love. It's an expression of us being genuinely happy and supportive because we spend most of our time preparing for that moment. And when you get to see athletes do what they love to do at the level, they want to do it at and ultimately perform and do things they never really thought was possible. There's nothing more rewarding as a coach. And that's something that needs to be expressed, not held in. So myself personally, whether it's passion, intensity, enthusiasm, those are all my love languages to basically express to these athletes how grateful I am and how proud I am of them to be able to do what they love to do and our jobs to make sure they can do that and keep doing that for as long as they want to.
Speaker 1 00:25:47 So describe the, the overall philosophy lifting weights for basketball players. What are what's what's top of mind when you describe what you're going to be doing with the shockers?
Speaker 2 00:25:59 The most important thing when you're trained in basketball is to, to understand the unique, physiological, technical, and tactical demands of the sport, but also the unique structures in biomechanics of a basketball athlete. We could have individuals from six foot tall to over seven foot tall that creates a unique kind of sample size when it comes to your training. So when you have 15 athletes in a basketball program and equals and equals one, so we have to look at each individual athlete, figure out what their strengths are, leverage those strengths, understand what their specific limiters are, whether that's injury, history, whether it's things like being able to get up a second, jump for a big and putting force into the ground and getting off the ground, whether it's speed, whether it's aerobic, fitness and recovery and conditioning, or he, it could even be sleep hydration and nutrition.
Speaker 2 00:26:54 You have to go top to bottom with each individual and figure out what those limiters are to performance, but not focus on those so much that you take away. What makes them great in the first place. So if you have an athlete that's aggressive that can rebound can run the floor that can defend that's agile, that's quick can accelerate decelerate. We don't want to take that away from 'em. We wanna support that. And as a strength conditioning staff, we want to compliment not compete with the sport. So everything we do has to raise the level of performance on the floor. So whether you look at before and after pitchers or metrics that we want to use, to be able to have key performer performance Indi, uh, indicators for performance, whatever those may be, those are great, but they need to be able to perform. We need to be able to mitigate injury, risk availabilities, the best ability that any athlete can have.
Speaker 2 00:27:50 And we have to put 'em in a situation to do that. So from a training standpoint, it's not necessarily that we're using technology or we're using sports science, we're using these relationships and connections we're using them. So we can get in with that athlete and figure out what they need to do to be successful. So whether that's strength, whether that's durability, which drives performance, whatever that may be, it comes down to assessing the student athlete, knowing where they are, and then leveraging and maximizing those strengths and specific limiters to put them in a position to be successful.
Speaker 1 00:28:25 So in your free moments, when you're not, not in the weight room, watching people lift heavy things and run and do all those kind of things, what do you do? <affirmative>
Speaker 2 00:28:35 Honestly, I like to suffer a little bit. I, I was a power lifter was a football player. Um, really did like strength and power sports. Um, had some injuries and I had this great idea that I wanted to be a triathlete. So I decided, you know, I love being outdoors. I love riding my bike. I love hiking. I love doing those things. And I decided, Hey, I haven't swam very much. I like to ride a bike, but haven't really rode a bike for an extended period of time. Uh, I will tolerate running. I'll do it. Why not do an Ironman or do something to that effect? So the last few years I've been slowly making my way up the distances and triathlon. That's something that I kind of leverage. That's also crucial for me to learn more about my body, but also how to prepare student athletes as well. So that's where I spend most of my free time when I'm not coaching and I'm not with my family and doing those things and training my son. I'm usually on a bike in a pool or a pound and pavement or dirt, which is a little bit more joint friendly for me, but that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 00:29:42 Do you have a favorite athlete, professional athlete you grew up, uh, really liking anything like that.
Speaker 2 00:29:48 Mike all stop from the Tampa bay. Buckers, uh, big fullback ran with unrivaled violence and just punished people on the field as a bigger guy that carried the ball. I couldn't think of anyone to look up to more than Mike Allstock. That would be my guy.
Speaker 1 00:30:07 He would be a fullbacks fullback, favorite movie or TV show,
Speaker 2 00:30:12 Favorite movie or TV show. Um, I'm a really big fan of end of Goodwill hunting. That's one of my favorite movies, uh, really enjoy that. Any story that's really people putting themselves in positions where they're capable of succeeding more than anyone ever thought. Like it sounds cliche. Um, but I find a lot of value in learning from other people's experiences, other people's adversities. Um, so Goodwill, hunting's a favorite of mine.
Speaker 1 00:30:45 Favorite book,
Speaker 2 00:30:47 Favorite book, actually it's recently I just read it. It's the practice of groundedness. Um, just read it. Not too long ago is a recommendation from a cognitive performance specialist of mine. Um, the idea of heroic individualism and B and where your feet are and be present. I think we're in a situation and environment of Uber production. It's important to be able to, to take a step back, be rooted and be where your feet are. It was an important reminder that I think I read. And it's a book that I continue to gift now.
Speaker 1 00:31:21 Favorite food,
Speaker 2 00:31:24 Favorite food Chipotle by far really any Mexican food, um, Mexican restaurant, but Chipotle is probably my go-to. Uh, my family knows we have a big three re restaurant. You gotta make all the kids, you gotta make the wife happy. And that's one. We can always agree on big fan of Chipotle.
Speaker 1 00:31:41 Well, you will have no problem finding those kind of those kinda restaurants here in Wichita. All right, Ryan. Well, thank you very much for your time. We'll welcome you to, to Wichita welcome you to Wichita state, and I appreciate your, uh, your time.
Speaker 2 00:31:56 Thank you very much for the opportunity. My family and I are beyond excited and grateful, um, to get started and I already feel so welcome. My family feels so welcome. So I appreciate everyone and I appreciate the opportunity to have a discussion with you today.
Speaker 3 00:32:21 Hi, this is Rick Neuma president of Wichita state university. Check out the latest episode of the forward together podcast. Each episode, I sit down with different guests from shocker nation to celebrate the vision and mission of Wichita state university. Listen, wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 4 00:32:50 Thank you for listening to the roundhouse podcast, courtesy of Wichita state university's strategic communications. We appreciate your time. We encourage you to rate reviews, subscribe wherever you get your podcast, such as on iTunes or Google play. You can find more roundhouse
[email protected]. Thank you for listening
Speaker 5 00:33:11 And they let him pass it up court. Then it gets picked off along three by Pango. No good. One second. It's over it over and WITA has beaten the number one team in the to know.
