[00:00:15] Speaker A: Hello. Welcome to the Roundhouse Podcast with Paul Sullentrop of Wichita State University Strategic Communications. Thanks very much for listening. Today we're going to talk about academics in the Wichita State University athletic department. Our guests are Director of Athletic Academic Services Gretchen Torlein and shocker baseball player Josh Livingston. The cumulative grade point average of 3.53 for the fall semester in the athletic department, that's the highest in recorded department history. Continuing an upward trend. Gretchen is fist pumping in celebration. Recorded history, how far back does that go?
[00:00:48] Speaker B: When I got here, they didn't record it before then. So 1990.
[00:00:51] Speaker A: So all the way back to 1990. So that continues an upward trend for shocker athletics and academics. It's the 39th consecutive semester of earning higher than a 3.0 cumulative GPA. 237 student athletes on the honor roll at Wichita State, which is above a 3.0, and 53 of them had a 4.0 GPA. 86% of student athletes were above a 3.0. So Gretchen has worked at WSU, as she just said, since 1990. Conditions were quite different when she started out at this university. Levitt arena, not really set up for academics, had little in the way of study spaces. Athletes would gather in the arena, right, or in the hallway for study hall.
[00:01:32] Speaker B: In the say so. We had a say so room that they had say so members in during men's basketball and we would have chairs in there when we didn't have basketball games and they could go in there and sit and study.
[00:01:43] Speaker A: So accommodations for the academics have changed quite a bit since then. At Wichita State, Josh is a senior infielder from Prosper. Texas fans will remember his outburst in the AAC championship last spring in Florida. He hit four home runs, doubled, drove in 13 runs in five games to help the Shockers all the way to the title game. Josh transferred to WSU from junior college and he's here to tell us about his academic journey. He describes himself as an average student in junior college. He is now a sport management major and last fall he had a 3.8 GPA. So, Josh, give us a little bit of the background. Describe your academic improvement during your time here at Wichita State.
[00:02:22] Speaker C: Yeah, so going back to junior college, I was an okay student. There wasn't many resources and it was kind of just on your own. I did a lot of online classes, so you kind of just go through it, do what you can. There was not a very nobody yelling at you, trying to tell you to do stuff. But when we got here, it was pretty evident. I Mean, one of the first things we did was had a meeting with Gretchen and Lucy and all the academic people and we had guidelines and standards that we had to upheld here. And from the very beginning, from study hall hours to mentor meetings, they basically spoon feed us. And so if you don't succeed in the classroom, I mean you're not doing your part because they're doing everything they can for you to help you out.
[00:03:05] Speaker A: And you mentioned Lucy. Lucy Schneider is also one of the people in academic student services for Wichita State and she and Gretchen share duties for baseball. Is that the right way to characterize that?
Yeah. Josh, take us through those early days. When did it hit you that oh, this is going to be different and I'm really going to be helped accountable, I guess.
[00:03:24] Speaker C: Well, in junior college there's no set time, there's no like I'm gonna put aside so and so hours to do this. But when you get here, you are required as a new student to do five hours of study hall. So already right then you're doing five hours of work. Like you have to be in a building with people supervising you and helping you for five straight hours. And so as the months go on, you know you don't want to do all five hours in one day or wait till the very last second to do them. So you're trying to space it out, get them done somewhat early in the week, but you're actually spending time in there because also if you get them done and you're a good student, you don't have to do it next year. So there's kind of a motivator for that part.
[00:04:06] Speaker A: Were you an easy sell or did you resist at all?
[00:04:10] Speaker C: I didn't resist, but I definitely wasn't thrilled in the beginning. I, I get bored pretty easily. So when I didn't have any work to do and I had to sit in there for a couple hours, it was still a little boring. But it did help me because I didn't have study hall hours in the spring. And then I think coming into this fall I spent a lot more time in there because I kind of got carried away and started pushing things back to the very end of the week. So I think I'm going to spend a lot more time this spring the days I can in the study hall room to get my stuff done early.
[00:04:43] Speaker A: So Gretchen, take us through the process.
High school kid comes in as a freshman or a transfer. How do you evaluate them and get them on the right path?
[00:04:53] Speaker B: Well, we work a lot with the coaches when they're Recruiting. They let us know who they're recruiting out of high school. We try to get an early feel for how they're doing in high school. So we get their transcripts, look at it, evaluate it for eligibility purposes, making sure that they're eligible per ncaa. And we can see their grades. We can see how they're doing in the different classes.
That sometimes doesn't tell the whole story of how good a student is going to be academically.
So we rely on the coaches a lot. They know them more personally. Maybe their background, where they're coming from, small school, coming into a big town. They think that might they have a little more difficulty assimilating. We listen to the coaches and that kind of gives us a feel. And then we really track the freshmen very hard at the beginning because they have to have five hours. No matter if they come in with a 4.0 from high school or a 2.5, they're in five hours a week. And then we can kind of gauge how they're doing and how we monitor their classes and then go from there and are there.
[00:06:02] Speaker A: Josh mentioned study hall. There are baseline things everybody goes through early. And then there are changes, alterations based on your performance.
[00:06:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Basically is all new student athletes, freshman or transfer, have to be in five hours a week of study hall in their first semester. After the first semester, if they reach the 3.0 threshold, if they make a 3.0 or better in their fall semester, then they're out of mandatory study hall.
Anybody can come in and use study hall. But we aren't just monitoring how many hours they're in there. Sometimes a student might make a 3.0, but maybe they were in classes that we thought maybe they were going to have more challenging classes in the spring. Then we can kind of develop it. Say maybe you're going to have two hours of study hall and then go from there. And then as the semester progresses, if we find that they're doing great and they don't need it, we can back off on that. Or if they're doing not so great, then we might up it and give them more study hall. So it kind of depends on how the student's doing. That's how we kind of arrange the study hall.
[00:07:07] Speaker A: So I think most listeners would be aware. Wichita State, most all athletic departments have academic people. They may not know the details. Give us kind of a look at the operation. Gretchen, what's it look like as far as staffing, resources?
[00:07:19] Speaker B: Well, we have four academic coordinators. We're academic coordinators. We aren't Academic advisors. A lot of schools, their academic people in their athletic department are advisors, meaning they give the students their classes. We don't. Our students at Wichita State, they're up on campus with the regular students and they're advised with advisors on campus. Then they come to us, we look at their schedule, look it over and help them make sure they're out of class in time for practice, that they're not traveling a lot on maybe Fridays when we know they're going to be out of town. So we have four academic coordinators and the sports are split up between all of us. We also have a graduate assistant and then we also have several interns that work in our office.
[00:08:07] Speaker A: And most of these operations take place in the student success centers. The big black building, still relatively new. The big black box, study hall, offices, those kind of things. Tutoring. Those things happen in that office.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: Correct? Everything. Everything. Tutoring, mentoring, study hall. Our offices were all in the same building.
[00:08:25] Speaker A: Josh, what was most helpful in getting you on a good path academically?
[00:08:29] Speaker C: I think it was the mentor meetings with lucy. There's a 30 minute time period. Sit along where you go in there and she basically walks you through your week. You go on your blackboard and you look at all the assignments you have to do that week and then you have a piece of paper and it's. Or now it's in your teamworks, but you basically do the assignment that's in your teamworks and then you check it off and you have all these things in there and the goal is to get it done all before the due date. So you go in there and it can be kind of a game sometimes where it's like, okay, I'm going to set aside this time and do these assignments and I'm going to set a time this time and do these assignments. And so the mentor meetings for sure help, because I could walk us walk her through or have her help me of like, hey, I have this and this and this assignment to do. What do you think I should do first? Where should I, what should I do last? Like, what do I need most help in? And so I think the mentor meetings with Lucy were definitely the. My biggest help.
[00:09:20] Speaker A: So did you come in thinking I need to get better at time management? Did you think I needed to get better in note taking? How did you get help in those kind of, those kind of areas?
[00:09:30] Speaker C: I just needed to. And it sounds terrible, but I just needed to care a little bit more.
I mean, for our own sports, like there's coaches and there's things like you want to perform for the coaches or for that thing, and they're basically like our coaches, but off the field, like you want to do well for them. Like, nobody wants to have a bad GPA because it looks bad on Gretchen or it looks bad on Lucy or the whole department. So it's kind of a do it for somebody more than yourself at this point.
[00:09:57] Speaker A: So once you got in a rhythm, you got some help. All this time management, did you find you enjoyed it more?
[00:10:03] Speaker C: I did. It made it a lot less stressful in the end of the week. You're not pushing four different assignments to the last day with three hours left in the day. There's no, you're not doing things stressful. It's just a bunch of stress free work where you're having time to go through and be like, okay, I can do this for however long this takes me.
I'm comfortable, I feel good about it and I'm not really worrying and I'm not putting my, I'm putting my best foot forward with this assignment and not just BSing it through the whole way.
[00:10:29] Speaker A: And so coaches will say, if you have a clear mind off the field, academically, socially, that can help you athletically. Would you agree with that?
[00:10:37] Speaker C: It definitely helps. Like there's times where, and I've done it a little bit, but especially in the last spring where you have three assignments due and we have a weekend series and the game's over on Sunday and all you can think about that weekend is, oh, I got to do so and so assignment. I do so and so assignment and definitely affects you on the baseball field. So pushing aside those things earlier on in the week and getting them done early are really important for off the on the field play.
[00:11:03] Speaker A: Better study habits equals more home runs. That's what we like to hear. Gretchen, objective based study hall. Describe why that's important to this process.
[00:11:12] Speaker B: Well, years ago, we would have students in as many as 8 hours, 10 hours of study hall a week. And I found that it was not very beneficial to have that many hours if the student athletes were coming in and they didn't know what they were doing and they were just messing around. And we'd have to, you know, open up a book, do something.
So I came up with this mentoring program, an objective based mentoring program where they can, when they come into study hall, they have an objective. So they have, as Josh mentioned, the list of assignments that they went through with their mentor that basically helps them. This is what you need to accomplish this week. So there's an Objective coming into study hall, they know this is what I have to do, this is what I need to get done. So it's kind of an objective based study hall, but also time management, teaching them this is what I need to get done. Making the most of every moment that they have so that as Josh mentioned, when they're on the field, on the court that they can focus on that instead of, oh my gosh, I have this academics or Gretchen's going to come over and talk to the coaches, we're going to get in trouble. That plays a big part in it and I'm okay with that. Scare tactic.
[00:12:26] Speaker A: Yes. Brian. Josh. One of the best stories I've heard about Brian Greene, the baseball coach, is that if a baseball player misses a study hall, misses a class, whatever, he will often pull them out of practice, send them over to the academic building in their practice gear. Tell us a little bit about Bryant Greene and his emphasis on academics.
[00:12:45] Speaker C: He takes it very seriously. He's had to get on us a couple times throughout my tenure here as far as academics because like I was talking about earlier, it can affect your on the field play. And it definitely looks, it has a certain look about it towards him also if he has a bunch of kids who are, aren't getting their stuff done like you, you want to have a bunch of players who seem accountable and seem like they're doing the right thing all the time. And so he takes it very seriously. When he needs to have a talk with us, he will and he'll tell us straightforward, like, you got to get this stuff done. This is unacceptable. We can do so much better.
And so there's definitely, like Gretchen said, a scare tactic and a fear factor there to make us get it done. And if we ever need anything for him to say anything, he will. But for the most part, I think right now we're in a good spot as far as doing it ourselves.
[00:13:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I would think that would come under the category of he talks a lot about being a professional kind of baseball player. And that can mean keeping the locker room clean. I've heard him go off on the locker room. Yeah, doing your baseball stuff in the right way, but also doing your academic stuff in the right way. That would all kind of fall into the same heading.
Josh, your favorite class in your time here at Wichita State?
[00:13:56] Speaker C: I took a class last semester, Sport Facility Management. And, and I really like more interactive learning instead of maybe just having to sit on an online class or maybe listen to a lecture for a couple hours.
His name was John Lee. Was Our professor and we had a couple different times. We went around, we went to Interest arena, we went to Riverfront Stadium, went to Koch arena and we got to go around, meet people that work there and see the day to day operation. What do they do for maybe if there's a concert there or if there's a game day there, what people certain jobs do. And they give us their business cards if somebody had interest in doing that in the future. It was very interactive and very job focused for down the line. And it kind of gave you an idea what people do, where people are at. So it was good to meet people and also go see things firsthand instead of maybe just sitting in a classroom and just learning stuff from a book.
[00:14:47] Speaker A: Those facility people, man, they are here all the time and they are always working. I think they are among the hardest workers in this department.
[00:14:55] Speaker C: We had a guy at Riverfront tell us he was. He gets there on game day at 6am for a 7pm game and then leaves it, I don't know, midnight. And then he's up five hours later, 6am again doing the same thing for three days in a row for a weekend series.
[00:15:09] Speaker A: Yeah, nothing happens without the volleyball nets being up or down or the basketball court being clear, all that kind of stuff. Gretchen, academic people will always tell you you've got to have support from the administration and you got to have support from coaches to be really successful. Tell us about the support from Kevin Saul, the athletic department within this department and how that helps.
[00:15:30] Speaker B: It is, you know, it's very, very important to what we do. If we have an administration that supports what we do, that takes what we do seriously and puts it in the forefront, it makes our job easier. So we can try to get the student athletes to do things. But if we don't have the support of the coaches, of the sport administrators, of the administration, they're not going to listen to us. So Kevin has been amazing with our department.
I was allowed to hire an extra academic coordinator at the beginning of the semester. So that was wonderful. So we now have four instead of three. So that has helped. So it has helped us broaden the services that we offer the student athletes and I feel like we're able to give more individual time to them.
[00:16:22] Speaker A: Yeah, an academic coordinator. What's a day in the life like? What do they do?
[00:16:27] Speaker B: Well, I looked at that and I tried to think about that and I asked actually all my staff today as I was having staff meeting and we all kind of laughed. If you could only say this is what an academic person does. It's so different day to day because basically we help when there's problems so we put out fires. It's multitasking. You might come in and a student comes in and says, oh my gosh, I have this test. I don't know what's going on. I need a tutor quickly. Or there's a recruit coming in that you have to have a visit for. A coach wants to call you in and talk about a kid. You have to talk to people on campus, professors. It's just, it's so different. And that's what's so wonderful about the job, is that it's not. You can't say what you're doing every day. It's different every day. And then of course it depends on the time of year. Clearly we're at the beginning of a semester, it's very busy right now. Come the end of May, it's going to be very slow, especially through the summer months until we gear up and get ready for the semester again.
[00:17:34] Speaker A: So I think people who have followed chakra athletics over the years would be familiar with academic journeys of some, some high profile athletes. Basketball. PJ Kuznard talked about it a lot. Rebecca Topham, a really good distance runner here. She talked about her, her challenges and how she improved here. Take us through some of your favorite success stories, Gretchen.
[00:17:55] Speaker B: I mean I think you mentioned them. I mean PJ was a big one. He, you know, coming out of Yates High School in Houston, he was not very prepared for college academically, worked really hard and got his degree, which is what it's all about. Rebecca Topham you mentioned, that is an amazing story. She basically couldn't read coming in. We gave her one on one tutoring with a wonderful lady in the city of Wichita that came and helped her.
And Rebecca just worked so hard and she was already a very hard worker and was organized and just that she ended up graduating with a 3.8 GPA is amazing. Just so proud of her. Another one that I always think of in my time, a men's basketball player by the name of Troy Mack. He played for us in the late 90s. He ended up graduating in 2001 and definitely was a kid coming in that didn't think that he would ever graduate. Definitely was not prepared but just about his junior year, really started focusing on what he wanted to do and graduated and did well at the end. And he's just one I always think about that I never thought would have graduated and he graduated and just so proud of him.
[00:19:24] Speaker A: Is there a common thread something that turns on the light bulb for them or is it different with every person?
[00:19:31] Speaker B: I think it's they never really think about it until later in their career when their career is almost over. And I think that the light comes on that, oh, I really have to be prepared for the real world. And I think that that's when it turns on. You know, a lot of my stories are athletes that have left Wichita State without graduating but then have figured out I really need that. And it's really hard once you leave and you're in the real world having to finish your degree. And the students that I've helped do that, it's just amazing the hard work that they've done and how many for many years afterwards have graduated. So I think that they really, some of them appreciate it at the end of their career here. And then when they leave, if they haven't graduated, then it's, you know, I really need to get this done. And we're happy to help them do that.
[00:20:26] Speaker A: Yeah. There's some well known names who have graduated many years after coming to Wichita State. Tell us a few of those.
[00:20:31] Speaker B: Jamar Howard, for one. He graduated several years and I wish I had the, I was going to write those down, but I didn't. But Fridge Holman as well, men's basketball player Brian Burgamy, a baseball player for us many years afterwards. He just graduated within the last couple of years. And I love it because they're so thankful. They're so thankful for what we do. And a lot of them apologize for the way they were when they were here saying, I didn't realize what you were doing for us, but I appreciate it now and that's great. That's what we want. Tyson Etion also is a name men's basketball player for us a couple years ago he left a year early to go play professionally and he actually just graduated in December of this year. So very proud of him.
[00:21:24] Speaker A: Yeah, everybody's journey and timetable is different. You'd rather have him graduate late than not at all?
[00:21:29] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:21:30] Speaker A: Okay, Josh. Let's say the folks at Crowder College say, we want Josh to come back and talk to our current athletes and give them some advice. Or maybe your high school what advice would you give a young college athlete about how to navigate all this?
[00:21:46] Speaker C: If you're not doing it the right way, it will affect you on the field. And whether you're in high school or junior college or wherever you are, everybody's on the field. Performance is the most important thing for them. And so we all Want to have the best opportunity to be successful on the field. And so I would tell them that getting your stuff done and being an excellent student in the classroom and being excellent in all areas will help you excel on the field or on sport, on the court, wherever you're at.
And you kind of. That's kind of a life you just want to live. You want to be really good in all areas. You don't want to be average here, average here, really good here, like, bad here, bad here, and really good there. Like, you want to live a life where you're doing really good things in a lot of different areas. So that's. That's probably what I would say to them.
[00:22:29] Speaker A: And now you would have been through the recruiting process from a couple different perspectives. As a high school athlete, as a junior college athlete, what kind of advice would you give a high school sophomore who says, hey, I think I'm pretty good. I would like to play college athletics. What would you tell them about the whole recruiting process?
[00:22:47] Speaker C: Well, one for the grades thing, that does matter. I was told that coming out of high school and junior college, like, oh, they're gonna. They care about your grades, care about your grades. But no, that stuff really does matter. Like, I was kind of bullish of it at first, but when I got here, when I was on recruiting visits, like, that's one of the first questions they always ask you is, how are your grades? How are your grades? And as far as on the field stuff, give yourself the best chance to succeed. Be the hardest worker you can.
Give the most effort, really enjoy what you do. There are days that are going to be long, especially in college, especially in junior college, where there's no time, no hour limit. So, like, you're going to be doing things that are really hard, but, like, really embrace those things, because the games and the moments with your teammates in the locker room, it's all worth it.
And we all want to be successful, and we all want to play well. So give yourself the best chance by giving the most effort, working the hardest, and good things should happen for you.
[00:23:43] Speaker A: So, Gretchen, a parent might be listening to this. My son or daughter has the potential to play in college. What are your top tips for getting them ready to go and launching a successful college career?
[00:23:55] Speaker B: I think the first thing I tell recruits when I talk to their parents and them is that time management, I think, is absolutely one of the most important things that they could bring in. I tell them, if you procrastinate, get rid of that right away. Because time management, the student athlete's life is so busy, there's so many different things going on that if they can't manage their time and figure out where to put everything, that's a problem. And then another thing is not be afraid to ask questions and ask for help. Communicate. I always tell my student athletes that if you don't communicate with me, I can't help you.
A lot of times they don't tell you things right away and then you can't help them or solve the problem. So definitely time management, being able to multitask. And what Josh said, I tell my student athletes all the time is don't be average. You're above average or you wouldn't be coming and playing a sport at this level. So be above average in every aspect of your life, which includes academics, because it transfers over to your sport. And just you as a person, be above average in everything you do. So I always that's kind of my speech I give to recruits and their parents.
[00:25:15] Speaker A: Gretchen Torlein, Director of Athletic Academic Services, and Josh Livingston of the Shocker baseball team, thank you very much for your time.
[00:25:23] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:25:38] Speaker A: Hi, this is Rick Mumu, president of Wichita State University. Check out the latest episode of the Forward Together podcast.
[00:25:45] Speaker C: Each episode I sit down with different guests from Shocker Nation to celebrate the vision and mission of Wichita State University. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
Thank you for listening to the Roundhouse podcast courtesy of Wichita State University Strategic Communications. We encourage you to rate, review and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can find more roundhouse
[email protected] it's over.
[00:26:25] Speaker A: It is over, ladies and gentlemen. Say it slowly and savor it. Wichita State is going to the Final Four for the first time in 48 years. Unbelievable.
[00:26:39] Speaker B: What a scene, folks.
[00:26:41] Speaker C: The Shocker fans are just going crazy in the stands. Just maybe the greatest win in the.
[00:26:47] Speaker A: History of Wichita State basketball.
