Speaker 1 00:00:14 Hello and welcome to the Roundhouse Podcast with Paul Sutro of Wichita State University strategic Communications. Today we have Mike Kennedy, voice of the Shockers, and Bob Lutz, host of Bob and Jeff on Sports Radio, K F H, former columnist for the Wichita Eagle. They're gonna join us as we continue to remember the 2013 shocker basketball season that ended in the Final four in Atlanta. I'll remind people those shockers went 30 and nine, they finished second in the Missouri Valley conference. They were seated. Ninth, they beat eight seated Pittsburgh and number one Gonzaga advanced through the Sweet 16, where they defeated LaSalle and Ohio State in Los Angeles that sent them to the Final four where they lost to Louisville in the national semi-finals. So you have both covered a lot of shocker basketball together. You've seen almost all of the ups and downs dating back to the dating back to the 1960s. So, Mike, let's start, put that season, that 20 12, 13 season into perspective for people. What did it mean to Wichita State Basketball?
Speaker 2 00:01:15 Well, first of all, it wasn't, it was a really good season. You mentioned they ended up 30 and nine, but second in the conference. I mean, it wasn't, uh, you, you didn't think of it going through as a particularly memorable season. And then they went on that run and made the final four. And I'm sure any of us, with what had happened in college athletics in terms of the, the Power five emerging and those kinds of things, wondered if there was any chance that Wichita State would ever reach that kind of level again. And so I think it just showed everyone what's possible. It, it put a whole different perspective going forward on what Wichita State Basketball could possibly be in any given year.
Speaker 1 00:01:55 So, Bob, you have the great memories with your dad of going to, I guess, what was then the W Field House, Stalworth Bowman, Warren Armstrong, all those things. That's where you, that's what you grew up on, uh, that Final four season in 2013. How do you put it in, in perspective for the, the history of shocker basketball?
Speaker 3 00:02:12 Well, I had 'em going to the Final Four after they're lost to Evansville on the road. So I went to FanDuel and, uh, made that be, uh, not really, because I don't think anybody could have seen this coming with this team. The thing about this team was you saw a bright future. You saw this team being the team that kind of was a stepping stone to be in something really special because you had these great freshmen and Baker and Van Vle and Wessel, and, uh, you saw you, you could see a bright future, but I don't think anybody could have foreseen a Final Four run with this particular team. But they got hot at the right time. They got, uh, fortunate in some ways, uh, there went over Gonzaga propelled them. Uh, that was certainly, in my view, the, the biggest win of this run and maybe one of the two or three biggest wins in the history of Wichita State basketball, because I think that made these players, this was a pretty young team. I think it, uh, I think it made them believe that anything was possible.
Speaker 1 00:03:17 No question. They did go on a run, uh, professionally chronicling that team. Mike is the play-by-Play Voice Bob columnist for the Eagle. What did it mean professionally to you, Mike, to be a part of that?
Speaker 2 00:03:29 I have always said that the, you know, my greatest thrill, my greatest moment in all the years that I've done Shocker Sports was the, the Baseball National Championship in 1989. But this jumped up there. Right, right. Even with that, pretty much, uh, I mean, I, I will never forget sitting there with Bob and Dave as that game of Ohio State ended and we went to a break and I'm looking back at fourth at them and saying, we're going to the Final Four. You understand what's happening here. We're going to the fricking Final four. I mean, it just had that kind of surreal feel to it. It, it's, you know, I don't expect to maybe ever expect something like that again.
Speaker 1 00:04:07 Yeah. My similar moment was typing those words at some point. Wichita State is one win away from the Final four, which, uh, unexpected. Bob, how about you? You saw a lot of shocker basketball professionally. What was it like to be on that?
Speaker 3 00:04:21 Well, we had an army of people at the Wichita Eagle in those days, and we put that together and we sent that crew out on the road. And my son Jeff, was a part of that. And, uh, to be able to cover that, uh, run of Wichita State basketball with him, and of course with you and several others from the newspaper, those were different days. And it's hard to believe that's only 10 years ago. Uh, we had, what, seven or eight people out on the road with that team? Two
Speaker 1 00:04:50 Photographers, Tony? Yeah, Tony Adame, Fred Mann probably would've
Speaker 3 00:04:55 Been on that, I don't think. I don't know that Fred was there, but, uh, Rick Plumley, Rick Plumley, uh, so I don't, that certainly is a bygone era already in terms of just media coverage and newspaper coverage. So, uh, we got in under the wire to be able to do something like that and, uh, to be able to staff that, that run with so many people and all the creativity and all the stuff that went into that, uh, was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 00:05:21 I can also remember, I think we did like a 96 page preview for the Final Four. And at some point I remember thinking, what are we gonna do if they make it to the championship game, <laugh>, how do you, uh, how do you, how do you follow that up? So yeah, that was, that was a lot of fun to bring that back cuz the fans were so involved and to feed their passion in, in, in my job and, and both of your job. That was a lot of, lot of fun.
Speaker 2 00:05:46 You know, the other thing for me, I had never been to a Final Four and haven't since. I mean, I'd never covered one for any reason. And just the scope of it was incredible to me. I've, you know, I've been to the College World Series and I haven't been to a Super Bowl, but I mean, just the size and scope when you got there to Atlanta and the arena itself. I, I swear now, it probably wasn't, but it felt like the walk from the media work area to the court might have been a mile or something. I mean, it was, it was that big and, and that expansive and it was just what, probably 20 some thousand people there for those glorified shoot arounds, the mandatory practices that they had in the arena, stuff like that, that, it just was incredible to me.
Speaker 1 00:06:30 Yeah, it was fun watching the players. I think they had that feeling multiplied walking out for the practice and, and seeing the, seeing the dome and, and all of that stuff. All right. Let's warm up for, uh, memory lane. I'll hit you with some, some trivia questions. We'll see how much you remember. You got a guy here nicknamed trivia. I know, I know. And you're gonna put me in that we'll see. Thanks a lot. And I think I gave away one of these earlier before we were, uh, before we were recording, who started more games that season? Fred Vant or Aime Arrupe.
Speaker 2 00:07:00 Oh, it had to be Arrupe. I don't know if Fred ever started a game
Speaker 1 00:07:02 That year, so, correct, yes. He may started 30. Was that his question? That was for, I knew you had, I knew you weren't gonna get that one. So I went right to Mike. Uh, Fred did not start a game that year. Yeah. His year maybe unfolded differently than what we think he was kind of finding his way. And then obviously, you know, got played a lot toward the, toward the end of the season.
Speaker 2 00:07:22 If I may, there are just a couple of things that I, I'll always remember about that year with Fred. One was the first time we had him on a postgame interview, uh, star of the Game. It was maybe the most incredible first interview with a freshman Dave and I had ever done. It was like you were talking to a 30 year old assistant coach or something. And then another thing I remember about that year was watching him just warming up and in practice and so forth. You could tell he's a true point guard. He's gonna be a really good point guard, but his shot was just average at best. And, you know, well that's probably something. Maybe he's not gonna be much of a score or much of a shooter. And then as the year went on and you watched him warming up and stuff, his shot just kept looking better and better.
Speaker 2 00:08:03 And I finally said to one of the assistant coaches, I think Greg Higher, I said, is it just me or is his shot getting better? And he said, oh yeah. He said, we just, we tweaked a couple of things technically when he got here, but then he's in, in the gym on his own all the time, working on it, and it's getting better and better. And then the other thing I remember goes hand in hand with everything he's accomplished, he'd come into a game sometimes early in the year and get burned. His guy go by him or something, and you'd think, okay, that's something he's gonna learn from and it'll get better as we go through the year. The next time he came into the game, he'd been sitting there watching the guy had figured out how to stay in front of him or do whatever he needed to do. I don't think I've ever seen a kid that young make those kinds of adjustments like
Speaker 1 00:08:43 This. A lot of great Fred stories from that season, uh, from his career. And, and certainly a big part of that would be as he got better, he and Malcolm were, uh, Malcolm Armstead were able to play together a lot late in the season. And that was very helpful for that team. Which Missouri Valley Conference opponent went two and o versus the shockers. Bob, I'll let you handle that one. Well,
Speaker 3 00:09:03 I got the sheep, but I'm not gonna look at it. Okay. I'll say Creighton.
Speaker 1 00:09:07 No, they won, they beat the Shockers twice, but did not go to And o Evansville Evansville. That's why I should have said, yeah, I I'm surprised you missed that one. We were, were, Evansville was a well known thorn in the shockers side.
Speaker 2 00:09:17 They were one of the games on, uh, on that three game losing streak in mid season. And then one senior night, which prompted Greg Marshall to never allow Senior Night ceremonies before a game again. He said guys were crying and, and it was just, you know, they ended up losing a home game.
Speaker 1 00:09:34 Yeah. And it cost them the Valley Championship or a share of the Valley Championship on Greg's 50th birthday, if I'm remembering that correctly. That was, uh, that was quite the night. Okay. That was 20 12, 13 was the last season for the Bracket Busters series, which was a big deal. Missouri Valley Conference Commissioner Doug Elgin, all that shockers easily defeated Detroit in the Bracket Busters game in late February. Wasn't particularly compelling. Who was the school, which was a Bracket Busters short-lived rival that did play a significant role in the 20 12 13 season. So a bracket Busters connection, although it wasn't a Bracket Buster's game. Bob,
Speaker 3 00:10:13 You know this though. I
Speaker 2 00:10:14 Do.
Speaker 1 00:10:14 Okay. Mike, of course he does.
Speaker 3 00:10:16 Mike
Speaker 1 00:10:16 Vcu,
Speaker 3 00:10:17 There you
Speaker 1 00:10:17 Go. Vcu. Yes. They beat VCU early in the season. Malcolm Armstead jumper in the Final Seconds. That was a return game from 2011, which of course was famous because VCU won here in a close hotly contested game. Went onto the Final Four, and then they met in the 2012 NCAA tournament. VCU Big, that was a, that was a big deal then.
Speaker 2 00:10:37 Yeah, they had won twice. You mentioned the game at, uh, at Coker. Well, yeah, the game in the tournament in Portland. So VCU had beaten them twice, had another very good team. And that win on the road early in the season kind of said, maybe this team's gonna be something special.
Speaker 1 00:10:53 And I think that was the, that was a big chip in the NCAA at large. Yeah. Bag. No doubt, no doubt. Uh, when the Shockers made the final four, this will be a good one for Bob. They became the first MVC team to advance that far since
Speaker 3 00:11:09 <laugh>. I hate trivia <laugh>. I didn't know
Speaker 1 00:11:12 This was, its like your biggest stick on the radio.
Speaker 3 00:11:14 I didn't know this was gonna be a, a
Speaker 1 00:11:16 Trivia, sparking conversation. I'm the
Speaker 3 00:11:19 First, the first, uh,
Speaker 1 00:11:21 Valley team, first
Speaker 3 00:11:22 Team since,
Speaker 1 00:11:23 Since to get to the final, who was the, who was the Valley team before Wichita State in 2013 to get to the final four.
Speaker 3 00:11:30 Um, Paul
Speaker 1 00:11:31 Blue, baby blue uniforms.
Speaker 3 00:11:34 Indiana State was Larry Bird, Indiana.
Speaker 1 00:11:35 There you go. Indiana State 19, 19 79. That's a long
Speaker 3 00:11:38 Time.
Speaker 1 00:11:39 All right. That's the end of the trivia then. Uh, give us a big picture description of that team. What made that shocker team go, Bob?
Speaker 3 00:11:47 Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna start with the guy that we don't talk about enough, in my opinion. And that's Clay Anthony early, um, not only was he the best player on this Final Four team, he was the best player on the next team that, in my, in my opinion, was even a better team than this one. Uh, his career at Wichita State was short but incredibly impactful. And, uh, I, I think he, his name belongs way up high. When you're talking about players who made a difference with Wichita State Basketball, to me, it's not a coincidence that they had this team and then a 35 and o team. Uh, just think about that back to back. That's, that's incredible. And while we celebrate this Final Four team, that team the next year deserves a pretty strong celebration as well. And this guy, I don't know that he's rafter worthy, but he's, he's pretty heady stuff in my opinion.
Speaker 1 00:12:53 Okay. Mike, I'll let you, but I, I was saving the CLE Anthony question for last, but Well, there you go. Yeah, when I bring up, when I bring him up as he needs to be in the, in the rafters with Salt Worth and Littleton and Levinton and Carr, sometimes people are hesitant or surprised to me. There's no question that he deserves his jersey up there.
Speaker 3 00:13:15 I don't, I personally wouldn't have. I think there's some others that, that, that are in that discussion. We don't, don't need to get into that today, but the impact that Clay Anthony early had on Shocker basketball, they're, they don't go to a Final four without him. Uh, they don't obviously have a 35 and oh run without him. I just think, uh, I think he's kind of, I'll see if Mike agrees. He's sort of the forgotten guy in all of this,
Speaker 1 00:13:42 Only here two years. But he was here for, he did his two years. Uh, he's on the NCAA all tournament, all Final Four team. He's the only Wichita State player to ever have done that. He was an All-American NBA draft pick. I don't know what more, what other boxes he would need to check to get up there. Ron and Ron Baker and Fred VanFleet will obviously be up there at at some point. I think he's absolutely deserving. Um, Mike,
Speaker 2 00:14:06 No, I can't disagree with anything that you guys have said. Um, I, I think, you know, you don't remember him quite like it was possibly cuz he didn't start a lot of games that year. He started about half the games. But yeah, huge impact. Uh, and then the other guy, uh, and I don't think he's been overlooked necessarily, but again, just a one year player in Malcolm Armstead, and I'll never forget the year before that summer, the team was gonna take a trip to South America, I think Brazil or somewhere. And so they were able to have some extra practices in the middle of the summer. And I went in to watch him. That's the first time I saw Ron Baker. And he was playing in practice against David Kyles, who was a freak athlete and not, not getting beat, not getting used up. And there was a break. And I called Greg Marshall over and I said, are you kidding me? You got this guy to walk on? And he said, Hey, our starting guards next year will probably be two guys that are paying their way to school this year. And it was Baker and Malcolm and I hadn't seen Malcolm, but huge impact as a leader helped develop Fred VanFleet. Uh, brought a little bit of confidence and swagger, I think, to that team that, that kind of fed over to everybody getting better.
Speaker 1 00:15:19 Okay. Mike, we'll get back to big picture view of this team. What, what, what characterized this team?
Speaker 2 00:15:24 I, I think that it was really almost two different teams. We talked about, uh, I think before we started recording this, that the five guys that started the year as the starting lineup at one point, a few games in, 10 games in or so, four of those guys were out for some period of time and they had to go through some major adjustments. Evan Wessel was gone for the year. Ron missed 20 games or something. And so there was this whole evolutionary process of figuring out who the lineup was, who was gonna play. And then when Bakker came back at the Valley tournament, it transitioned again into the team that ended up making the run. So it was in some ways hard to get a feel for that team through the course of the year and just who they were and how good they were. And then it all came together at the perfect
Speaker 1 00:16:08 Time. It definitely had two or three different versions of that team. Carl Hall also missed significant time. He may missed a few games. So they had some, had some interesting, uh, some, some injury issues. So this team is interesting cuz we've talked about it endured some low points. What turned things around in March for this group? Bob, what's your memory of when they caught fire and why?
Speaker 3 00:16:29 I just think their young players started to figure it out more. We, we knew they were talented guys, uh, but they just started to figure it out more. They had that great mix of veteran leadership and young players and they had a lot of guys who could contribute. Contribute. They played really good defense from the start to the finish. That was kind of a calling card, obviously with Greg Marshall's teams. So that really never went away for long. But I just think that they gelled. They're, they're young guys. When you play 30 plus games and you get into February and March, you're not really young anymore. And I think their chemistry just, uh, came together.
Speaker 2 00:17:14 And, you know, we, we mentioned CLE Anthony. I mean, he was one of the, you'd have to con consider him one of the young guys too. One of the new guys he came from, what a division three juco. So that's a big step up in competition. So he got better and better. And I think when Bakker came back, it not only added offense in terms of his shooting, which helped a lot, but I couldn't help but notice right away, just even though he hadn't been playing, obviously watching and having been through it. Uh, just knowing where to go, where to cut, finding openings in the defense. He contributed a lot to the way the ball movement improved and so forth. Just the overall composition of the offense down the stretch.
Speaker 1 00:17:55 Yeah, his addition was definitely significant. I guess it shows us that if you have three NBA players on your team, that's, that's pretty helpful. Pretty helpful. So in part because of those injuries, this team's depth was, was really on display, especially in the regular season. Aime started the 30 games, as we mentioned, including two in the NCAA tournament. Demetri Williams started 26. He had a stretch where he was really important with Ron out with Evan Wessel out. Uh, Nick Wiggins had some big games, 12 in a, in a tight win over Southern Mist, down at Interest Arena. He had 18 at Drake. Jake White had some moments, uh, especially verse Gonzaga. So Greg Marshall's team's always characterized by depth. How did this team utilize its depth, Mike?
Speaker 2 00:18:36 Well, Bob mentioned the defense and that was the, the biggest thing. I think everybody played defense and I think everybody accepted their roles. I mean, uh, Chad Rock Le Field was last on the team in scoring, but he had some moments in the nnc it seems like, against Ohio State. He had a couple of big plays and just, uh, everybody kind of understood their role and contributed and, and uh, that's how they got through having those guys out.
Speaker 3 00:19:02 And you think back, everybody made, had big moments. Nick Wiggins made a lot of big shots that season. Kind of a guy off the bench that they could really count on to be a, to give them kind of instant offense at times. Uh, you mentioned Jake White. I mean you talk about a forgotten player. I didn't remember him until I looked at the stat sheet that he had some moments. And then we haven't mentioned to Kale Cotton, who, my goodness. So what a glue guy. He was maybe the best defensive player that's ever played here. I think he's in that argument. Athletic, uh, a guy who could, uh, could do incredible things on the basketball floor. You know, they had, they had a lot of, a lot of good players. You think back to that poor Wichita State team that went to the Final Four back in 1965 without Stallworth
Speaker 2 00:19:54 And
Speaker 3 00:19:54 Bowman and Bowman and how, how, how depleted that team was. This, this team was not depleted. They withstood some injuries. Yes. But they had really solid depth.
Speaker 1 00:20:08 Yeah. And really guys that could do what, as Mike said, what they were needed to do. A he made blocking shots, protecting the rim. Demetri Williams, good defender, really an energy guy. Nick Wiggins just a super, super athlete and, and could really get going on the, on the scoring end. Definitely. Bob, did you have a favorite player, one that maybe was enjoyable to talk to, had a compelling story? What would you remember about those interactions with them?
Speaker 3 00:20:34 Well, I liked, I liked talking to Nick Wiggins. He was outgoing and effervescent and had a lot to say. And certainly Mike mentioned Fred Van Bleed and every time you talked to him, you're just like, you, you're just compelled to, to listen to every word. So those guys were great. CLE Anthony was kind of off the wall at times. Fun to talk to.
Speaker 1 00:20:54 Very talkative. Yes.
Speaker 3 00:20:55 Yeah. Bakker was never at a loss for words. They were, they were a fun team to cover, uh, as well as a fun team to watch because those guys, they just had something special. Dmitri Williams was, was good to talk with. They, they were all good interviews.
Speaker 1 00:21:10 Yeah. Mike, how about you?
Speaker 2 00:21:11 Malcolm stands out to me. Just he was so mature, uh, and, and very, very much team oriented. Uh, I mean there are the stories that, there were times when Fred was in the game and Marshall was gonna put Malcolm back in and he'd say, now give him a couple more minutes. He's playing. Well, you know, give him, let him play. And helped, really helped his development. Uh, you know, I think some people would be, uh, you know, reluctant when they see somebody that could potentially take their job to help 'em out the way he did. And he had a, he had a big role in, in Fred's development, so I always enjoyed talking to him. He always had a very mature perspective about what was going on.
Speaker 3 00:21:52 And he's a guy who could have come here and wanted just to be pretty selfish because he could have made it about him because he was kind of on the run and moving around. And, uh, he ended up at Wichita State with like Mike says, some guys that he could make an impression on. And he chose to do that, uh, rather than try to be the guy all to himself. I was impressed with him as well.
Speaker 1 00:22:14 Yeah, definitely had a big role in that team. He had been at Oregon, had been at junior college with Greg Higher, right? Yes. And that's how he ultimately ended up here with, uh, with Greg, the assistant coach. He is the one they say told coaches they were going to the final four early in that, early in that NCAA tournament run. Whether that's apocryphal or not, I don't know. But he had that, that swagger as Mike said that that kind of confidence. Uh, Carl Hall, I remember part of the fun of being around these teams on a, you know, kind of a long, consistent basis. I think Carl was the guy who got more and more comfortable with us talking to people. And I, I remember he, cuz he cut his dreadlocks going into the NCAA tournament and really enjoyed the new hair because people were making a big deal out of it. I think he brought the, the hair to a press conference at one point. Uh, it, it was just fun seeing those guys enjoy the spotlight. And I guess that would be a credit, that's one thing that stuck out to me. The coaching staff, Greg Marshall allowed them to, they, they kind of soaked it all in. They, you know, it wasn't something, they were not Kentucky. They were not going every year. So they really enjoyed it.
Speaker 3 00:23:21 Yeah. And you know, you think back and when we went out to Salt Lake and they played pit, and I think if memory serves in my memory very rarely does, but I think they were a slight underdog in that game to pit and they just took a two pit just, and that's really where I in myself said, Hmm, that's interesting. How good is this team? You knew they had the number one seed Gonzaga next. It certainly made that game more interesting the way they just manhandled pit. I think the way they beat Pit gave them a lot of confidence, not that they didn't already have it, uh, but they won that game by 18. And who was Pit's, uh, main guy that
Speaker 1 00:24:07 Trey Woodall talking about? We had not mentioned Teco maybe as much as, as we should have, but he was the star on defense in that day. Definitely
Speaker 2 00:24:16 That game is, is one of my favorite memories of the whole thing because on selection Sunday, as soon as the bracket was announced, uh, shortly afterward, I got a call from a talk show in Pittsburgh. They wanted me to come on and talk about Wichita State. I said, sure. So I get on there and it's just a bombardment. How did, first of all, they were upset that Pitt only got an eight seed. And how did, how did this team get a nine seat? Who have they beat? And I said, well, you know, DePaul, which the last time I checked is in your conference and named some others. And it was just that type of, of put down through the whole thing. And finally at the end they said, well, what do you think of Wichita State's chances? And I said, if the team's attitude is anything like what I've been hearing on the other end of this interview, I like their chances a lot.
Speaker 2 00:25:03 And when you mentioned to Kale, the thing I'll never forget was really early in the game. He just took it from Trey Woodall and they went down and scored. And as Woodall is bringing the ball back up the floor, I, I swear, unless I missed it to Kale, never talked crap to anybody, never said anything. But he was down in his stance waiting for him, looking at him. The look on his face was like, I've got you and you know, I've got you and there's not a thing you can do about it. And he was in Trey Wood all's head big time that entire game.
Speaker 1 00:25:33 Yes, that was, and there was a lot. I think it's, I don't know that Wichita State fans or maybe even us knew quite what to expect because of the way that team had played, you know, late February, uh, lost in the Valley Tournament championship game to Creighton. So, and then as you said, I think Pittsburgh was upset with its seating. It was kind of a, an interesting circumstances that that really helped the shockers. No doubt.
Speaker 2 00:25:57 You know, there, uh, I think it needs to be said that one of the things that stood out about that run Greg Marshall maybe more than any other time in his tenure, which at Utah State, kind of developed a knack for the right thing to say at just the right time that that helped that team. Uh, you know, I was gonna ask you guys if you remembered the play angry thing started with, uh, Antoine and X were at a home game, came in the locker room that was about shouldn't never let anybody beat you at home. You gotta play angry. I don't even remember if that was that same season or maybe even the year before. I
Speaker 1 00:26:34 Think it was the, I'm sorry to interrupt, it was a Missouri State game after they had lost three in a row. Okay. If I'm remembering, I think they were in the locker room before
Speaker 2 00:26:42 Or, and, and that was mentioned. I'm sure you had it in your story and that sort of thing, but it, it didn't seem like it just, it really got talked about a lot. And then Antoine called Greg before the game in Salt Lake City and said, you know, that's, that was one of my homes. I played the, you gotta remember the remember behind the guys to play angry. And then it really started coming up. And then after they beat Pittsburgh at practice the next day he asked them, are you satisfied? You know, is that, is that enough? That was a good, very good way. When are you satisfied? Which I thought was a great approach. And then I don't remember the exact time and score, but I, you know, I remember being told that late in the Gonzaga game, they're down four or something, there's a timeout. And he said, if I told you at the beginning of the season you'd be down four a Gonzaga with X minutes to go to go to the Sweet 16, would you have taken it? And they all said, yes, of course, and let's, let's go out and do it then. I mean, he, he really threw that whole thing, had a knack for getting them in the right frame of mind.
Speaker 1 00:27:44 Yes. I thought he really shown on that stage for those reasons. He was in the press conference, you know, he would shout out, I think, you know, pizza Hut, the air capital he mentioned, I think the volleyball team going to the Sweet 16. He just enjoyed the whole thing. I think that helped the team enjoy the whole thing. He was really good for his, his way for words really, really showed up on that big stage. No doubt. And
Speaker 3 00:28:07 Let's, uh, let's also point out here that yeah, they lost in the semi-finals, but they had Louisville on the ropes for most of that game. In fact, who, I can't remember the name of the kid from Louisville who came in and made a bunch of
Speaker 1 00:28:21 Lou Hancock
Speaker 2 00:28:22 Yeah. Transfer
Speaker 1 00:28:23 From George Mason's, who it all just, it all connects.
Speaker 3 00:28:26 That's who you ought to do a podcast <laugh>. Where is Lou Hancock? Because, uh, that guy kind of ruined a lot of dreams. He made a lot of big shots in that game that, that, uh, overcame What I thought was, I thought Wichita State was, I thought they were in
Speaker 2 00:28:43 Well, and there was another kid that had made like one or two threes all year that came off the bench and hit a couple of big shots for them.
Speaker 3 00:28:50 Yeah. They were up. I I I envisioned him some little guard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, they really played well against Louisville for most of that game and that Louisville just made shots.
Speaker 2 00:29:04 I went back and looked one time, I think Louisville won something like their last 16 games that year and that run to the, the national championship. And that was the closest game they had. And I think Patino even said at one point, that was the, the best team we played in that run. And that was the, the toughest game we had in that whole stretch,
Speaker 1 00:29:21 Most memorable game. Mike, what, which one sticks out?
Speaker 2 00:29:25 Well be first beyond the Final four and or the, the NCAA tournament run. Um, there was the game at Illinois State, and, uh, they were, I went and looked back and looked, they were down seven with 40 seconds ago. They'd actually missed a shot down five with under a minute. And that was the Jackie Carmichael rebound where he kicked to Kale Cotton and, uh, whatever anybody says, I've watched that replay a jillion times. You can see him look right at him and kick his foot at him. And the bench, there was a foul then on Wichita State and the bench said, Hey, look at that. You know, and when they look, they've assessed the flagrance. So they made two free throws to go up. Seven Cle made two free throws to cut it to five. Then Demetri made a three and Clea ended up hitting a three. And then there was the incident in the locker room afterward that, uh, you know, I've only heard <laugh>, you know, secondhand, we weren't in there of course, uh, but in the tunnel out or the hallway outside the locker room between
Speaker 1 00:30:23 The coaches. Yeah, Dan Mueller and Greg Marshall were not. There was a rivalry there, there
Speaker 2 00:30:27 Charged, charged. Greg Marshall. The other thing I've always heard about that is the players heard the commotion were starting out of the locker room and Dominic Coone stood in their way and said, get back in there. And nobody was gonna challenge Dominic, but that was one of those rare back. Bob will remember back when, in the early days of our coverage, there were a lot of two game swings in the Valley where you'd go one place and day in between and go another, well, we didn't do that much back then, but that particular trip we played Illinois State and then bused over the next day to Terre Haute and played Indiana State on the same trip. And on the bus over Greg Marshall is going up and down the aisle of the bus. There was a seventies song called Kung fu fighting at a singing, everybody was kung fu fighting. He'd do the karate kick and he knew every word to the song. You remember every word to that song. So that was pretty comical.
Speaker 1 00:31:20 Yeah, the big game Shockers won that 1 68, 67 scored eight points in the final 40 seconds of that game. Uh, quite a quite a memorable regular season game. Bob, how about you? Most memorable game? Well,
Speaker 3 00:31:32 I, it has to be the Gonzaga game, right? I mean that, that, that was the one that, uh, defined, uh, the shocker season in my opinion because, uh, they beat the number one seed and that woke everybody up to what, wait a minute, what's Wichita State doing in this situation? Then they went to LA and I thought they got a good draw. I mean, they get to play LaSalle. I mean, I think the three of us and two janitors here could have beaten LaSalle. Not really, but LaSalle was a good draw. And while Ohio State was a really good team, they were a beatable team. I, I don't think anybody was that shocked that Wichita State went to Los Angeles and beat LaSalle and Ohio State. So some of it was, they had some teams knocked out that that was helpful to them. But the Gonzaga win, my goodness, you beat a number one seed and a worthy number one seed. Uh, to me that's not only the defining one of that season, but one of three or four in Shara basketball history.
Speaker 2 00:32:34 And there are a couple of things about that game. When I mentioned the Illinois State game, I said, outside the NCAA tournament run, I would also pick Gonzaga. Uh, the shot that Fred made played in the game, a couple of steps beyond the three-point line and launched it. I heard he even turned to the bench and winked after he let it go. But, but, uh, I, I called it in the play-by-play one of the biggest shots in Wichita State history. And then after the game, the, the bench was at one end of the floor. The fans that were there were behind the bench and then the band was right around the corner at the end of the floor and the band started playing that You don't wanna go to war with the shockers and the players and coaches all lined up on the end line and were dancing around and singing that song. And it was, of all, everything that happened to me, that was maybe the single most spontaneous, joyous moment of the entire run through the tournament.
Speaker 1 00:33:28 I think Fred's answer, cuz he's been asked about that. He, I think Greg had been on him about when are you gonna make a big shot? Or those kind of things, you know, kind of that, that, that pushing the buttons that, that Greg was, that Greg liked to do. Uh, and that was Fred's, uh, and that was Fred's response. Yeah. So let me remind you of the Gonzaga game. 76 70, uh, baker and Clay Anthony both had 16 points. I thought Carl Hall really had a, a important game from establishing that Wichita State was physically tougher team. Uh, not great stats, but I just thought he had a really, really important part in that. And then, uh, Fred had 13 in that game, so definitely kind of a, a little bit of a coming out party for Fred.
Speaker 3 00:34:12 It'd be fun to talk to Fred about that game because his numbers, we all saw him play. We knew he was a good player and we thought he'd be a really good player. But his numbers, uh, this season we're talking about, were nothing really to ride home about. But making that shot and then what he did the following year where he really took it, took it to a, a new level. Uh, I'm just wondering about the importance in his basketball life of that shot against Gonzaga going down. Not to make too much of it, but I wonder what he'd say about that.
Speaker 2 00:34:46 And even carrying over, you know, he made a couple of big plays down the stretch in the Ohio State game too that I think probably had some carryover confidence benefit from making that shot.
Speaker 1 00:34:57 One of the most striking things about that next season when they went 35 and oh was, you know, entering the season, the natural question was, you're losing Malcolm Armstead who plays point, it's probably Fred, but there was absolute confidence. You could have talked to ev all of the assistant coaches, everyone on that team. There was no question that Fred was, was ready for that. And, and, and clearly he was, uh, Greg Marshall. Why was he the coach that could get that team to do those kind of things?
Speaker 3 00:35:26 I don't know. I mean, if you could, if you could bottle it, you'd probably make a lot of money. But, uh, he just had, like Mike said, he knew when he knew what to say and when to say it, he could motivate. Um, he just, he had a good understanding of, especially of the concept of defense. He really demanded that. And every coach will say, I'm gonna demand that you play defense, but we know that's a facade in many cases with him. It wasn't. You had to, you had to play defense. And this team was really good defensively. All his teams were really good defensively. And I think, uh, they rode that ability to play defense and score enough. They didn't average 70 points a game this year, uh, the final four year, but they scored enough to be successful. But they relied on defense. And that's something he preached day in and day out. And when he demanded it, it, it was different than when most coaches demanded.
Speaker 2 00:36:28 I think he had a sense from the beginning, having been at places like College of Charleston and Winthrop, that, uh, even at Wichita State, when you got to that level, you weren't going to out talent people that they were, that defense and toughness and playing together were, were ways that a program like Wichita State could beat some of the blue bloods. And, and then of course he did have, you know, ended up three NBA players, as you mentioned. He had good players, but, but always they put themselves in position to win through the defense that Bob was talking about and that toughness and playing together, beating people on the floor for loose balls, all those little things that add up to big things. And, and he just had a, you know, a feel for that's how we're going to have to play if we're going to beat
Speaker 1 00:37:14 Some of these people, not turning the ball over. They always won that math, that possession battle. Uh, what I will always remember about watching practices and how that pertained to the success is his en energy in practices. He would sit in the middle, he would stand in the middle of that court and people would be flying by him. And he had a great memory. Yeah, he could stop things and say, all right, five possessions ago you were here when you should have been three feet over and you set this screen and the the timing wasn't right. And he was always right. He always remembered. But those practices, the word I always used was crackled. There was an energy and an intensity in those practices. And, uh, a lot of players say this, but I think there was a lot of truth to it, that the games were in some ways easier than the, easier than the practices. I think that was a big part of what made those teams, uh, successful. All right. We already talked about Clea Anthony early in the rafters. I think we're, we're unanimous on that. Final thoughts, Bob, have we missed anything? What else would you like to get in about that season?
Speaker 3 00:38:17 Well, we talked a lot about the team and, and about our personal, uh, experiences with, uh, covering a final Four. Um, I have been to numerous final Fours, only one with the shockers. Uh, so that one was extremely memorable. As I I said, being on the road with my son and covering Wichita State and the hometown team, it, it was more special than maybe being out there with ku, which I've done numerous times or, uh, other final fours. So just that team, you know, it, it was a special team, but I'll say it again. I hope that in a year you're doing a podcast on the next team that came along because, uh, I don't want that team to be undersold. That was an incredible basketball team, uh, that went 35 and oh and played Kentucky to the Wire. And, uh, to me that, uh, I think that team and the 63 64 team are the two best chara teams in history. I'm curious to know what Mike thinks about that. And this Final Four teams certainly would be in that realm as well. But, uh, boy, what a, what a two year stretch for Wichita
Speaker 1 00:39:32 State. I'm already working on the trivia questions for I can't for the 2014 retrospective No doubt. Study
Speaker 3 00:39:37 Up.
Speaker 2 00:39:37 Yes. Well, the Bob's comments about the 14 and the 63 64 team, I, I would certainly agree with, I'd put the 80 81 team in that, in that list too. And, you know, that team reached the Elite eight without Ozal Jones and with Tony Martin kind of hobbled, uh, for a while in the tournament. So, uh, that was a, a great team also. But, uh, I guess for me it's just, I, I hope that I experience something like this again before I retire, which may not be too long, but it was just such a special memory and it, it was, I think you can take a lot of pride, uh, if you were part of it in just the people that were involved. We've talked about the qualities of those players and, and the coaching staff and, uh, to, to watch somebody that didn't have those McDonald's, all Americans and all that kind of stuff go as far as they did, in my opinion, should have been in the championship game. That held ball with Baker was crap. And I'll always feel that way, <laugh>. But, uh, but yeah, it'll just always be a really, really special memory for me. Uh, absolutely unforgettable, no matter what else happens from here on.
Speaker 1 00:40:46 Definitely a lot of fun. I think my big memory is coming back briefly in between rounds and just seeing how on fire the, the city was the fans and hearing the, you know, the story, the fireworks after games and people just being so excited and t-shirts flying off the shelves, all those things was really a lot of fun for, to, to observe.
Speaker 2 00:41:05 Yeah. I, I think, uh, all of us who have been around here a long time have always had that feeling that there's nothing that ignites this city like shocker basketball and it's successful. And I think that's true. I mean, it, it reached across all kinds of backgrounds and everything else, and people that weren't even that, you know, that intense basketball fans that just got into it and the, the t-shirt sales and all the stuff all over town was just absolutely incredible.
Speaker 3 00:41:36 I made a good point on the 80 81 team too. You could do a, a series of podcasts that was some, some kind of team, and you talk about the personalities on that team. Well, uh, off the charts,
Speaker 1 00:41:51 Interesting time, no doubt. Bob, give us a League 42 update. You've wrapped up or about to wrap up another season. You have the new less, am I saying this right? Leslie Rudd Learning Center, Uhhuh, give us the League 42 update.
Speaker 3 00:42:03 Well, we're as busy as we've ever been. We're adding all kinds of stuff to the baseball part of this, the education and other programming. So serving 600 kids and we're, we're, uh, we're flying high right now, Paul.
Speaker 1 00:42:19 Okay. It's a big week
Speaker 2 00:42:21 Unsolicited. Sorry, let
Speaker 1 00:42:22 Me go ahead, Mike. Yes.
Speaker 2 00:42:23 And I've always said, I've told you guys this. I, I think you guys are great writers. I think that at your time during the Eagle, you were the best there was. But for Bob to find this niche and to, to hit on something that has done so much for so many kids is just an accomplishment. Uh, that very few people, I mean, you know, they say if you can affect one person's life, you've done something to make the world better. And you look at what Bob's done with this thing, it's, it's gonna be his legacy. And I think it's tremendous
Speaker 1 00:42:55 League 42. So I appreciate that. Baseball, youth baseball for kids who might not have that opportunity to participate in baseball, how many kids do you have in your, in the program?
Speaker 3 00:43:04 Way too many <laugh>. 600.
Speaker 1 00:43:07 600.
Speaker 3 00:43:08 So yeah, we've capped, we capped our league at 600. Uh, that's how many we feel comfortable serving. And, uh, they're great kids and they're getting a lot out of this programming, we hope. And, uh, we love doing it.
Speaker 1 00:43:21 So League 42 has a website if you wanna get involved. You're always looking for coaches, you're always looking for volunteers. Uh, yes, as Mike said, Bob's transition from cynical curmudgeonly sports columnist to the kindly grandfather of baseball in Wichita has just been a, it's been a great thing to see. Hey, thank you both very much. It was a lot of fun reminiscing about that team. It's a big week for basketball in Wichita. We're talking all this final four talk because the aftershocks open play in the basketball tournament on July 20th. Shocker. Alumni reunion from the four Final Four team. That portion of the weekend is highlighted by the dinner at Mark Arts on July 22nd. Thanks very much.
Speaker 4 00:44:15 Hi, this is Rick Mema, president of Wichita State University. Check out the latest episode of the Forward Together podcast. Each episode, I sit down with different guests from Chara Nation to celebrate the vision and mission of Wichita State University. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 5 00:44:44 Thank you for listening to the Roundhouse Podcast. Courtesy of Wichita State University strategic communications. We encourage you to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can find more roundhouse
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Speaker 6 00:45:00 It's over. It's over. Ladies and gentlemen. Say it slowly and savor it. Wichita State is going to the Final four for the first time in 48 years.
Speaker 7 00:45:14 Unbelievable. What a scene, folks. The shocker fans are just going crazy in the stands.
Speaker 6 00:45:20 Just maybe the greatest win in the history of Wichita State Basketball.
