Speaker 0 00:00:00 <silence>
Speaker 1 00:00:14 Hello, welcome to the Roundhouse Podcast with Paul Solen, Trop of Wichita State University, strategic Communications. We are going to talk shocker basketball with TJ Cleveland. TJ is an assistant coach for the shockers. He joined the men's basketball coaching staff in July after spending the previous four years at St. John's. TJ has also coached at U A B Missouri and Arkansas with former coach Mike Anderson. TJ played at Arkansas from 1998 to 2001 under Coach Nolan Richardson. Uh, Nolan Richardson, of course, very familiar to, to older shocker fans from his time at Tulsa. Tj, let's start, tell us, uh, about your path for working for Paul Mills here at Wichita State. How did you end up here?
Speaker 2 00:00:57 Well, um, it was kind of like divinely orchestrated, to be honest. Um, I was, uh, just leaving St. John's and actually thinking about participating and working with the, the N B A and out of nowhere, coach Mills calls me and, uh, and tells me that he has a position open and would I be interested in, in joining him. And of course, I, I've known Coach Mills from the past when he was at Baylor. I was at Missouri at the time as an assistant. Um, so we crossed paths at that juncture. And then over the, over the years, we just crossed paths on the road and, and always stayed in touch. And, uh, this opportunity came and, and, and it was, uh, too good to pass up.
Speaker 1 00:01:38 So, being at Arkansas, Missouri, you would've been around Wichita State, kind of in the general area. What was your impression? What was your knowledge of, of shocker basketball?
Speaker 2 00:01:46 Uh, just watching from afar over the years. You know, I was al I always admired the, the blue collar mentality that, uh, Wichita State was known for. Um, just the tough and tenacity that when you think about Wichita State, that's what you think about, you know, on the court. You know, playing hard, playing fearless. Um, and so that was something that was, that, that, that drew me to this position because, you know, it was a lot of similarities between how I recruited in the past, how we played at, at schools that I've been at before, um, to what Wichita State brings. So
Speaker 1 00:02:24 Take us back to high school, TJ Cleveland. Did you want to get into coaching then? How did you kind of fall into this, uh, this profession?
Speaker 2 00:02:32 No, no. I had, of course, like every high school kid, um, college player, you want to go to the N B A. That's the number one priority you wanna play in the N B A. But at some juncture, at some point, reality slaps you in the face, and, and then you have to make a decision on what's gonna be my, my career path. And, you know, when you go through what you call, what I call the mid twenties crisis, you try to figure it out. And I went through that when I graduated from, from Arkansas. Um, I did some things, uh, like worked at a barbecue restaurant. I worked at Blockbuster. If, you know, I know I'm telling my age saying I worked at Blockbuster. You
Speaker 1 00:03:10 May have to stop and explain what Blockbuster is
Speaker 2 00:03:12 To some people. <laugh>. Yes. Um, so I, I did a lot of things. I was doing basketball lessons at the same time. Coach Anderson allowed me, um, to be a video coordinator at U A B. So I did those things away from the court, which kind of I wasn't good at. And it drew me back to basketball, uh, which was something that, that came natural to me. Uh, I've always been, um, themed as a coach on the floor, uh, from middle school, high school coaches to, to Coach Richardson at Arkansas. He always called me a coach on the floor. So I think that was kind of directed my path on where I am today.
Speaker 1 00:03:53 So video coordinators where you started out at U A B and that job has become, seems like a more prominent, uh, entryway into coaching. Eric Olster from the Heat, I think famously was started out in the, in the video room. How does that job, uh, prepare you to be a coach?
Speaker 2 00:04:09 Um, number one, it keeps you humble. Um, I mean, you, you're starting at the, at the ground floor, uh, swapping tapes, building relationships with other schools, and it allows you to really, without even knowing that you're doing this study and watch a lot of film, um, and so by watching a lot of film, you're, you're prone to learn things and be able to take things back to the staff, be able to take things back to players and show them. So, um, it, it helped me from a foundational standpoint, uh, get into coaching.
Speaker 1 00:04:43 Who are your coaching mentors? Who do you, who do you emulate?
Speaker 2 00:04:48 Um, number one, I think Coach Richardson, who I played for, um, I, I take, I take a lot of different things from a lot of different coaches. Uh, I'm not just, you know, looking at one particular coach and saying like, this is how I want to do things if I ever get to move over to the next seat. But Coach Richardson, number one, coach, coach Anderson, who I spent two to one years with, um, as an assistant and coach, Mike Davis, who's at Detroit Mercy right now. And, um, and please forgive me if I say this, uh, shocker Nation, but Bill Self is another one that, that i, I kind of emulate. And, and, and like some of the things that he does as a coach, he would
Speaker 1 00:05:24 Have a lot of good things to, uh, to pick up on. No, no doubt. Uh, so coming from the video background, is there a, uh, a basketball player, maybe it's an n b A guy, maybe it's not who you like to send clips of to your players who you like to say, Hey, watch this guy. Watch what, watch what he does.
Speaker 2 00:05:43 Well, when you, when you think about Wichita State, and like I mentioned before, the, the blue collar, the toughness, the mentality that you have to have, uh, some guys to play for, for us at other schools in the past. Uh, Damari Carroll who played for us at Missouri, he was a tough hardnosed player. They kind of worked his way into the N B A, uh, got drafted first round by Memphis Grizzlies, I think it was 2009, 2010, somewhere in there. Uh, Bobby Portis who played for us at Arkansas, tough hardnosed, blue collar guy. Um,
Speaker 1 00:06:14 Now with the
Speaker 2 00:06:15 Bucks, not with the Bucks, you know, world champion. And, you know, those are the kind of guys, the, the blue collar guys who play with a chip on their shoulder that, that I would clip up and, and send the guys, um, showing how hard they play on both ends of the floor, and sometimes behind the scenes, how hard they work when the camera's not on them.
Speaker 1 00:06:36 Nolan Richardson, uh, describe playing for him.
Speaker 2 00:06:39 Whew. Um, it was tough. It was tough. Um, it was good, but it was tough. He was hard on us. And at the time, you know, you're a young 18, 19, 20 year old, you don't understand why he's being so hard on you and pushing you to, um, to the max. But as you get older, and now as a coach, I understand now why he pushed us that hard. Um, and it was not only just for physical conditioning, but mental conditioning as well. Getting us ready, not only for things that were occurring on the court, the adversity that was occurring on the court, but now when you get into life, when you hit adversity, you know, I played with Coach Richardson, so nothing, nothing, you know, can bother me right now when it comes from an adversity standpoint.
Speaker 1 00:07:24 You played in the NCAA tournament three times for the Razorbacks while you were there. What do you remember about that experience in, in those marches?
Speaker 2 00:07:30 Uh, it was a great experience. Um, you know, things that you can remember forever. I mean, I, I still remember like certain plays during games, good and bad. Um, it was just a, a, a thing. You know, you, you're building in a team bond in the locker room on the floor. Um, you know, like I said before, just things you can't, you can't, uh, put into words, you know, getting that opportunity. 'cause everybody doesn't getting that opportunity every year.
Speaker 3 00:08:11 Hi, this is Rick Miama, president of Wichita State University. Check out the latest episode of the Forward Together podcast. Each episode I sit down with different guests from Chaker Nation to celebrate the vision and mission of Wichita State University. Listen, wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 00:08:41 So at Arkansas, it appears you are a nightmare on the defensive end for opposing guards. You had seven steals in a game in, in 2000, and that total is tied for ninth most by any razorback. Do you remember the opposing team, L
Speaker 2 00:08:56 S U in the conference tournament?
Speaker 1 00:08:57 Bingo. Very good. Yep. All right. What do you remember about that game? What were the circumstances that led to the ball flying around so much?
Speaker 2 00:09:04 Um, well, it, coming into that tournament, you know, we weren't supposed to make the NCAA tournament, so we were just playing with our backs against the wall, and we were playing against some really, really good players. A couple of guys that went on to play in the N B A, Stromeyer, swift, uh, swift and Jabari Smith, whose son now is playing with the Houston Rockets. Um, so they had a really good team. I wanna say they might've been top 10 in the country at the time, and, you know, so we just went out and played loose, nothing to lose mentality. Uh, and of course, playing for Coach Richardson, you had to play with toughness. And as a freshman, I had to find a way to get on the floor, and defense was my calling card. Um, and I wasn't the biggest guy, but you don't have to be the biggest guy to be the toughest guy. So that's what I tried to make my mark on the floor as a, as just a defensive pest. And, and, and, um, and be that guy because I played with some really, really good offensive players. Uh, Joe Johnson, uh, Janero Pargo, who went on to play in the N B A. Um, so yeah, defensive was, was my theme. And I definitely remember that game. It, it was, it was a really, really good game.
Speaker 1 00:10:13 You did so well on that trivia question. I'll ask you the second part of it, which is probably a little bit tougher. Okay. There's three other, Razorbacks also had seven steals in the game. Can you name any of them? Two of them are pretty big names in Arkansas, pretty fairly recent. Uh,
Speaker 2 00:10:27 Um, seven Stills is either Lee Mayberry
Speaker 1 00:10:31 Close,
Speaker 2 00:10:32 Um, Alvin Robinson?
Speaker 1 00:10:37 No,
Speaker 2 00:10:37 Um, uh, she, Robert Shepherd,
Speaker 1 00:10:42 I'll give 'em to you. Okay. You were close with Lee Mayberry. Who was Lee Mayberry's famous teammate. Todd
Speaker 2 00:10:46 Day. Todd
Speaker 1 00:10:47 Day. Todd
Speaker 2 00:10:47 Didn't play any defense. <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:10:49 He, he ran into seven on this day, I guess. Uh, j d Notte. Oh yeah, I, I'm not sure the pronunciation on his last name. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2 00:10:56 That's right.
Speaker 1 00:10:56 Yeah. And then Ronnie Brewer, who, I think Ronnie is the son of Ron Brewer. Yes.
Speaker 2 00:11:01 Oh, that was a young guys. I, I didn't know that. These are all
Speaker 1 00:11:04 Fairly, all fairly recent. Oh. But that's a good, that's a good group to be a part of. Okay. Alright. Shocker. Fans I know are eager for basketball season, uh, new Coach, new style. What are they gonna see? Describe Wichita State's style of play?
Speaker 2 00:11:18 You know what Coach Mills is, he's implementing a, a, a style that I think fans would love. Uh, I know the players like playing it, and it's all about creating space and giving guys the freedom to, to be able to create, shoot a lot of threes, uh, play at a great pace. And offensively, man, it's, it's going to be, it's gonna mimic a little bit of Golden State Warriors, a little bit of San Antonio Spurs, um, all of those things. So it, it'll, it'll be fun now starting off, it's implement a new system, so it won't be pretty starting off, but I think as time goes on, the guys will, uh, grasp more of the concept that he's trying to implement and, um, it'll start to be a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 00:11:59 So how does an assistant coach like yourself get up to speed on the way Paul Mills likes to run things, plays offensive drills, things like that? What's your process been like over the last month or so?
Speaker 2 00:12:09 Uh, it's been, like, I've been in school, I've been watching a lot of film, asking a lot of questions, um, just spending a lot of time with him. Um, I know sometimes he probably wants to shoo me away because I would just walk in his office and ask like 10 questions in a row. Just trying to, just trying to get it down, get a concept, because I've been used to doing things a different way for the last 21 years, but I'm enjoying the process. Coach Mills has been great. Um, if anybody ever has a chance to look at his laptop, he has like 10,000 things on it. I don't know how he keeps up with it, but he's what I call a basketball nerd. Um, he doesn't, you know, waste time just, you know, teaching me the rest of the staff, like, Hey, he'll pull out his laptop and show us, like, he'll talk about it, but then he'll show us on film. So it's, it's, like I said, it's been like I've been in school, but it's been a good thing.
Speaker 1 00:13:01 So if you're talking to a Shocker fan who wants to know, what am I looking for? What should I observe about this team? Are there a couple key points to the offense and the spacing that, that might be interesting for people to hear?
Speaker 2 00:13:13 Um, just kind of what I see it is, this is gonna be a process of, of, of spacing and pace and guys knowing where to get the shots, um, where to be timing. That's a lot of timing. Things that we talk about, um, offensively. So I think early on it's just gonna be, it might be a little ugly, but I think game by game, practice by practice, it'll, it'll start cleaning up and it'll look, it'll, it'll be a beautiful thing. So
Speaker 1 00:13:40 The Shockers got a, a, an early start on that process. They played three D games in Greece over the last couple weeks, winning all three for an exhibition trip. What's the benefit?
Speaker 2 00:13:51 I think more than just on the court, uh, trying to win win games while you're over there. It's the bonding, the, you know, I always believe that you win off the court before you win on the court. Uh, you learn more about your teammates, staff learns more about each other and the team, the players, uh, you get, you get to spend time with each other and see each other in another light. Uh, besides just doing drills and, and being here at Co Carina. Um, so it was a great, great experience. Um, and the guys, they, you know, they're buying in and you can see it when they go out and play. It wasn't always pretty, but they're buying in, they're trying, they're cheering for each other, and those are the kind of things you wanna see. You know, we, we went back and watched tape, like after games. And so as coaches, you don't only look at, you know, who's not boxing out or who didn't, you know, slide over and help side. You also look at the bench and see who's up cheering, who's clapping, who's, you know, giving high fives when the player subs out. So all those things come, uh, culminate in going into winning. So we, we look at all those and, and those things were, I wanna say it was positive.
Speaker 1 00:14:59 Was there a standout in cheering and giving out high fives? Anybody really catch your eyes being enthusiastic? Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:15:05 Coach Quincy, ac <laugh>. Okay. He was, you know, he's a high, you know, I remember Quincy when he was playing, he was a high motor guy. Um, always had energy. I mean, just a great phenomenal person to be around. I didn't know that day. I just knew him as a player. But now I'm getting to know him on another side as a coach and as a person. And his energy is infectious throughout everybody. Um, so yeah, I get, I get that hat. I give that hat to Quincy has, okay, coach Quincy,
Speaker 1 00:15:34 Quincy, HASI energy guy, like it <laugh>. Uh, what were the primary goals of the, of the trip on the court? What did you really want to come back with an idea about?
Speaker 2 00:15:42 Just see if they can, you know, after having 10 days of practice beforehand, before we went over, just to see if they can transfer what we were teaching over to gain, um, see how they communicate. Were they verbal? Um, you know, if a guy fell down, did they run over and pick a guy up? Some of the little things, the rest of the things we can teach throughout the year, we can clean up, you know? 'cause we, one thing we didn't like is we had a lot of turnovers each game, but that was to be expected. Um, guys just getting familiar with each other and getting familiar with the system. But, um, but yeah, we, I, I like, I like what we were doing over there offensively and defensively.
Speaker 1 00:16:19 Was there an area where you, where you thought the shockers made the most progress while in Grease?
Speaker 2 00:16:24 Um, defensively? Defensively? Um, when we, we made good defensive adjustments in games, uh, from game to game. And to see the guys go out and, you know, take instruction and go out and make those adjustments on the floor, uh, was a good thing. So it tells you they're coachable.
Speaker 1 00:16:42 Did, did a defensive stopper, maybe stopper's a strong word, but did a really strong defender emerge somebody that caught your eye?
Speaker 2 00:16:49 Yeah. Believe it or not, I, a freshman joy, um, he was, you know, he has a body and a physique of a 28 year old. Um, he was tough on the ball, uh, tough off the ball and, and played with a physicality for a freshman. That was, um, that was impressive.
Speaker 1 00:17:09 Okay. We got, uh, video clips from athletic director, Kevin, Saul, Willie Swanky did, uh, did a lot of video over on the trip, but we didn't get, you know, we weren't able to watch a whole game or anything. Seemed like Ronnie degrade did some good things. Describe Ronnie and, and his role on this team.
Speaker 2 00:17:23 Uh, he's a high motor, um, energy guy, um, all over the floor. Really good offensive rebounder, just knows how to play the game, older experience. And you can tell when he plays, uh, doesn't say a lot, but, but he does it with action. Um, you know, he impacts the game in, in a variety of ways. He can step out and shoot it. He can post up, um, and just knows how to play. I mean, he's, he's a good piece for us.
Speaker 1 00:17:48 Ronnie De Gray is a, a transfer from the University of Missouri. Uh, another player who seemed to make a good impression was a, a real newcomer Daylon al transfer from Missouri State. Joined the team, I think just the day before the th the trip, but made, uh, seemed to be really active on the offensive boards. Tell me about, uh, tell me about his game.
Speaker 2 00:18:09 Um, couple things. Yeah, I mean, hats off to him to come. I mean, just come outta nowhere the day before, jump on the plane, go to Greece and impact the way he did. I think he had a game where he had 12 and 12, 12 points, 12 rebounds, which was really impressive because he wasn't here for prior to, for the 10 practices. So he really didn't know anything. But he plays so hard that he impacts the game in a variety of ways. He can shoot it, he can step out and shoot the ball, and he's a tremendous, tremendous rebounder. So his energy was infectious throughout our team. When it, when, you know, when he plays the hard, the way he plays, how he plays hard, it kind of tricks through other guys.
Speaker 1 00:18:53 So, shocker, fans have been waiting more than a year to see Colby Rogers. We know he's a excellent shooter. Tell us a little bit about how he fits in with the offense. He seems to be a perfect guy with the emphasis on spacing and, and three point shooting.
Speaker 2 00:19:07 Uh, another guy that's, uh, experienced, uh, been around the block, he can, he can go get points. I mean, he can put it on the floor, he can step out and shoot it. And I still think it's a lot of room for improvement, and he's still trying to figure out the system as well. But the more you see from game to game, he got a little more comfortable. And I think when we get back and we're able to be in the gym every day a little more, that he's gonna be even better, uh, throughout the year because he can step out and stretch the defense.
Speaker 1 00:19:35 Did anybody surprise you in, in Grease?
Speaker 2 00:19:38 Um, you know, Daylon was, Daylon was a surprise for sure. Um, I think he stood out the most, um, and big Quincy Ballard. He, he, he played, he played well, he played well. He surprised, um, he did a great job of rim running, protecting the rim. His hands are better than, than I anticipated during the game. Um, had some, some tenacious, tenacious dunks. Um, so he has a lot of room to improve. He's gonna get better throughout the year. Um, and, and, and the good thing about all these guys, they wanna be coached and they wanna be coached hard. So if, if, if you're coachable as a player, then you have room to improve.
Speaker 1 00:20:13 Which part of the sightseeing portions of the trip did you enjoy?
Speaker 2 00:20:19 Be honest, all of them. Um, Deline Nicky kinda stood out when we first touched down over there. That was, that was a, I mean, we woke up every morning to a great view. Uh, looking at the, I don't wanna call the wrong ocean. I don't know if it was the Pacific or Atlantic. Sorry. Uh, that's all right.
Speaker 1 00:20:35 We're not
Speaker 2 00:20:36 Gonna fact check Geography, geography teacher. I apologize. I should know better. But, um, it, Greece was just beautiful overall. Um, it was a, a beautiful place.
Speaker 1 00:20:47 We will wrap up. Uh, do you have a book or a movie to recommend for the people to check out?
Speaker 2 00:20:53 Yes. Um, I'm an avid reader. I read a lot, uh, a couple of books that, that i, I, I love are Ray Dalio's principles, um, think and Grow Rich, uh, Napoleon Hill. I've read several John Gordon books. Um, the Carpenter, I'm reading Energy books right now for the second time. Um, TD Jakes, I read a lot of his books. Uh, instinct, um, identity, um, Joyce Meyers. So, I mean, I can go on and on. I, I, I read a, I read a lot, um, made in America the book about Sam Walton. Of course, I played at Arkansas and Walmart was big there, so I was always intrigued by the Walton family and how they got started. So
Speaker 1 00:21:41 Do you, are you a actual book reader or do you have a electronic, a Kindle or something? Both. Both.
Speaker 2 00:21:46 Both. Yeah, I have both. I have both. Mm-hmm. The Kindle's easier, but I hate when it dies and I can't, you know, you have to find a charger, so I I I kind of do both. Right.
Speaker 1 00:21:56 All right. Good to hear. Good to hear. Uh, I, I believe you were looking over the G N C I did a quick look. So if we have any, any geography professors out there, that's, that was my quick look at a map. TJ Cleveland, assistant coach for Wichita State Men's Basketball. Thanks for your time. We appreciate
Speaker 2 00:22:11 It. No, thank you.
Speaker 4 00:22:27 Thank you for listening to the Roundhouse podcast. Courtesy of Wichita State University's strategic communications, we encourage you to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can find more roundhouse
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Speaker 5 00:22:42 Bradshaw into Wingate. Wingate's gonna dribble it a couple of times and throws it in the hands of kuznar, threw it away. Kuznar to Ryan Martin for the goat. The shockers are going to the Sweet 16. It's all over the shockers. Up seven three seconds. Smith is no good.
