[00:00:14] Speaker A: Hello.
[00:00:15] Speaker B: Welcome to the Roundhouse Podcast with Paul Sullentrop of Wichita State University Strategic Communications. As always, thank you very much for listening. Our guests are Wichita State women's golf coach Tom McCurdy and senior golfer Mackenzie Wilson. Shockers wrapped up their fall schedule last month by finishing third in the PowerCat Invitational in Manhattan, Kate Tilma finishing in a tie for seventh, and McKenzie in a tie for ninth. That was WSU's fourth top five team finish of the fall season. That's the most they've had in the fall since 2017. 2018. Mackenzie, who is from Hobart, Australia, earned four top 10 finishes this fall, highlighted by a tie for fifth and the Johnny Iams Invitational in Columbia, Missouri. And immediately, I'm worried I mispronounced Hobart. Pronounce that for us so we can get started on a good note.
[00:01:02] Speaker C: It's Hobart, so you did really well.
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Okay. All right. As long as I was close.
[00:01:05] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:01:06] Speaker B: Okay. Tom, the Shockers played five fall tournaments. What did you learn about your group?
[00:01:11] Speaker A: Very steady. We have more depth on our roster this year than we've had in the past. Great senior leadership.
Mackenzie just played fantastic in each event, doing what we expect our seniors to do.
She's led the team in every way. I'm really impressed also with a couple of our younger players. Amelie Paul from France, who's a sophomore, and Kayla Van de Van, who's a sophomore, really stepped up their play from what they did last year.
But I'm seeing more consistent scores throughout the lineup, which has really helped all five tournaments. We were competitive, and that was what we wanted.
[00:01:47] Speaker B: Mackenzie, you said this was the best fall from a team aspect. Most fun competing up near the top of these leaderboards. Tell us more about that. Why was it such a good fall?
[00:01:58] Speaker C: It was great because we have depth now, so our fifth bag. We can really rely on our younger girls putting up a good score. And when we come in after the day, we can really get around each other and be happy about what we did that day instead of being kind of disappointed as we have been in the past.
[00:02:14] Speaker B: So when you have six, seven, all these golfers competing, does that make qualifying during the week more stressful? But is that a good thing?
[00:02:22] Speaker C: It is a lot more stressful, but a much better thing. People are, our team's going. We have to go under the card now instead of just playing okay. And getting in the team.
Yeah, people are really trying, trying to get in the team rather than just staying and trying not to lose.
[00:02:41] Speaker B: Tom, what did you notice about the depth? Maybe early this Fall in qualifying. Did people really have to step up their games to make the make the final list?
[00:02:50] Speaker A: Oh, definitely. So we saw some low numbers at qualifying from multiple players that we hadn't seen before.
Some players stepped up how we like, but you can certainly see the nerves with the depth. Every spot is in contention now and it's really, really tough for especially the players on the bottom of the roster who haven't had push themselves to get into position now they have to. The benefit of that is we're seeing it at practice too. We've got girls working harder than ever before.
It's really great from a coaching perspective because I think especially our seniors are pretty smart in how they practice and what they do. Their systems are really good.
So there's not as much hands on that we have to do. But I think that's due to the maturity of the girls and we see that every day and especially in qualifying.
[00:03:38] Speaker B: So moving toward more a player led team, which I know coaches love. Describe that process for us.
[00:03:44] Speaker A: I'm kind of a type A hands on and it's, it's hard for me to let go of that. But it's really nice to know that we've got players who are responsible and can do their own thing and they're smart about it.
But the biggest thing is they just work hard at it. We've had smart players before, but they don't put in the time and that really doesn't do the team any good. We've had players who put in the time but don't really know how to do it on their own. And so we have to do a lot of coaching in that respect. And I think we've got a really good core of seniors, not only just for this year, but I think our younger players are paying witness to what it is that our seniors who are doing well are what they're doing and learning from it. So hopefully that will provide a lot of positives for years to come.
[00:04:31] Speaker B: Mackenzie, describe your role as a senior leadership. How do you lead, coax, prod, push people to, you know, be out there doing extra work, getting the most out of practice. How do you, how do you handle that as a senior?
[00:04:45] Speaker C: It's a bit hot now because we're all kind of at different places, different courses, practicing. But I like to lead by example. I would like to think that the girls on the team, the young girls, see what I'm doing, see what Brooklyn, Kate and Sammy are doing and look up to us and know how to practice, know how much time they need to put in, know how to handle themselves on the golf course. And then we can kind of pass the torch over and they can continue with what we've. We've done.
[00:05:13] Speaker B: Mackenzie, you're in your fourth season at Wichita State.
Take us through your progress. What have you gotten better at? How has being in this program helped?
[00:05:22] Speaker C: I think my game has come a long way since freshman year.
I had a great first semester here as a freshman and then kind of dipped in my golf ability, I guess, in my scores. And then I put in a lot of hard work over the summer and came back and have been playing well now. But having a team around you, we don't get that. Usually in normal golf, having a team around you to really push you, and you can see what the other girls are doing and how they're doing better.
Yeah, it helps a lot.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: So if you go back and talk to not just freshman Mackenzie, but any freshman in college, what's your advice? How do they start this journey and get the most out of it?
[00:06:11] Speaker C: Say, put in a lot of work, a lot of time, Listen to others, watch people get a grasp of how college golf works. Because I really had no idea coming into it.
Yeah, just put in a lot of time, effort, and stay confident in process.
[00:06:37] Speaker B: So, Tom, when you hear a senior say that, how much of that can you tell them as a coach, as a freshman?
But then how much of it do they just have to kind of figure out on their own, I guess?
[00:06:47] Speaker A: Oh, we tell it to them all the time. But whether they figure it out is the big question. Kenzie, fortunately did.
You know, everything Kenzie said is just spot on. It's what we want for all of our student athletes on the golf team.
A lot of her learning has been she came like she said. She won a tournament her fall semester freshman year, and the attitude she brought to the team was fantastic. She wants to win every single time she tees it up. And I think there's a lot of sports psychology that's good, but can also work against people in terms of.
It's almost like the word win is a bad word, a taboo word at times because it sets an unrealistic realistic expectation at times. And in golf, only one team or one individual can win a tournament. You're playing against 100 other people, so you don't win very often, but the goal is always there to win. And she's always had that high standard. And that's one of the things that I love about McKenzie that she brings to this team. But in her development, she sought out areas of the game that she wasn't as good at. She's always had that competitive spirit, but there are some gaps in the physical part of her game, maybe the mental part of the game, but she surrounded herself with fantastic people. She's got a great swing coach back at home. She spends a lot of time with Katherine Kirk, who used to play on the LPGA Tour, who mentors her here in town, a fellow Australian.
I've never had anybody seek out ways to get better and try and find every gap that isn't filled the way that Kenzie has. And that's why we're seeing the steady performance that she has throughout her senior year.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: Mackenzie, when I talk to you during your freshman year, I think you just started using a spreadsheet to organize all aspects of your life. Golf, school, conditioning, diet, all that kind of stuff. Update us on the spreadsheet plan.
[00:08:46] Speaker C: The spreadsheet now is more about.
It's less about whole life stuff and more just golf. So my spreadsheet now is more of review on my last tournament and then a plan until the next one. So now I look at the schedule as a two week blocks and after each tournament I sit down, review with coaches, my coach at home, and then we make a plan, what I did well, what I did bad, and then we make a plan for the next one.
[00:09:18] Speaker B: So I talked to so many students, both in the athletic department, outside the athletic department, and a lot of them will tell you when I finally got organized, that's when things really improved for me. What motivated you to get the spreadsheet going and how did it help?
[00:09:33] Speaker C: My coach at home is very into planning, goal setting and he uses spreadsheets. And I think it just works with my brain. I can see it much clearer.
So yeah, my coach at home, he has it all laid out and then I kind of took that and made it my own.
And that way I just, I know the direction that my practice is going. I can show up and have a plan every time. And then after the next tournament I can go back and review what went well, what went wrong and then do it better the next time.
[00:10:04] Speaker B: What shows up most often and what went well?
[00:10:08] Speaker C: Usually my driver hitting greens, been working a lot on mental game, committing to shots. So that was in the strengths this semester, which has been really good. Yeah. The opportunities which was the weaknesses in my game. Usually iron play, putting goes back and forth. Yeah.
[00:10:30] Speaker B: Tom McKenzie had a strong, consistent fall. Take us through that. Why was she able to finish in the top 10 so frequently?
[00:10:38] Speaker A: She doesn't make the big mistakes.
Many golfers at this age, at this level can play 14, 15 holes, but they'll have five or six throwaway shots that cost them one or two double bogeys or a string of bogeys. She's just cleaned up her golf game, and every aspect of her game is pretty solid.
You just get that consistency. And I think her best golf is still ahead of her.
I'm waiting for her to get on a hot streak, to tell you the truth.
And that's. That's more of just things falling into place. You get some breaks, you get lucky, some putts fall in, things like that.
It's much harder to do what she's done to clean it up, to prevent the bad things from happening in the first place. That's what separates her from other girls currently on this team, but that's also why she's in the top 10 all the time.
[00:11:31] Speaker B: Is there a golfer on the team who maybe had an up and down fall, but you think really did the things to get them ready to have a good spring?
[00:11:39] Speaker A: Yes. Amelie Paul has improved a ton from last year to this year. She's another one who is really competitive.
She works at it well. She's got a really good swing coach back home and a good sports site coach back home.
She has a very good balance of what she's trying to do and how to accomplish it. She just has had an injury in her left wrist, which has been a nagging thing. She wasn't able to play for us at Kansas State, and her play was really not up to standard at the Oklahoma tournament at Prairie Dunes as it should have been.
If we can get that healed, she can be up there on.
You know, she started actually with a top 10 and she had a.
A couple other really strong finishes. But it's the injury that's going to get.
We need to get resolved with her. But she's another one that can help us certainly in the spring if we can get that taken care of.
[00:12:34] Speaker B: So the fall schedule's wrapped up. You start the spring tournament play on February 20th in Arizona. Tom, take us through this next month's. How do the golfers stay sharp? What's the routine around shocker golf?
[00:12:46] Speaker A: The great thing is we've had great weather and so we haven't had to be indoors for anything. The girls have been practicing. We took a week off actually about 10 days after we got back from the last tournament in Manhattan. Give the girls a break.
Sometimes it's. They can, I mean, they work hard on their own Anyway, it's not like they need us certainly cracking the whip or anything like that, but we need to get a little bit more going as the weather starts to get cold. Just make sure we stay sharp, focus on mental game, game plans, course management, things like that. And kind of dialing in short game what we can when we're in the indoor facility. We've got a couple weeks left, and it looks like the weather's turning a little bit, so we might do some more of that. We're starting a program with our sports psychologists, mental health coaches today, so I'm really excited to get that into action. But we do have about four or five weeks once we get back in spring before we start that first tournament. So hopefully we'll have good weather. We can get right back into our systems before we start competing.
[00:13:47] Speaker B: So we mentioned Kate Tilma. She finished in a tie for seventh at Colbert Hills last month. She had a really strong finish last spring. Finished in a tie for seventh in the American championship. How did Kate's fall go?
[00:14:00] Speaker A: Hit and miss. The good thing about Kate is she works really, really hard at it.
She's had a. She broke down her swimming and has been redoing some things, and it's been taking time, which we knew was going to happen. The goal is for her just to have a good spring. And so we knew the fall was going to be inconsistent, which it was.
But we're liking what we're seeing at Kansas State. She really was hitting the driver better, which has been the one area of her long game that hasn't been solid. She's been, you know, the first three tournaments played more silverware than anything. Long irons off the tee than the driver. But this last room is nice to see her finish on a good note, kind of get back to herself again.
And I'm not concerned about her working on it or working intelligently at it. So I'm excited to see what she's gonna do in Spring.
[00:14:48] Speaker B: So, MacKenzie, you're a senior. Tell us what's next for you after you're done with your college eligibility at Wichita State.
[00:14:54] Speaker C: Yep. So I'll graduate in May, and then I have one more year to finish my masters here at Wichita State, doing econ, and then hopefully I'll turn pro after that.
[00:15:03] Speaker B: Okay, tell us about getting a master's degree in economics. What's the motivation there?
[00:15:08] Speaker C: I was really my dad. I wanted to do sports science, but then jobs are hit or miss, especially if I want to go home. So dad was like, what else are you interested in? I said money. So then we started econ, and, yeah, I've loved it. So just. And the accelerated econ program here is really good, and it allows me to finish my masters in an extra year.
[00:15:33] Speaker B: What's your favorite econ class so far?
[00:15:36] Speaker C: Microeconomics.
[00:15:37] Speaker B: Okay. What do you like about that?
[00:15:38] Speaker C: I like the psychology of it.
Getting people to do things without them knowing. Yeah.
[00:15:46] Speaker B: That sounds like that's a lot of economics.
[00:15:47] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:15:49] Speaker B: Letting water find its path.
[00:15:51] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:15:52] Speaker B: Mackenzie, favorite golfer. Who do you really enjoy watching, reading about, learning from?
[00:15:57] Speaker C: I really like watching Nellie Corder. I think her swing is beautiful.
Any Aussie. I go for any Aussie. Steph Curriaku is great. Grace Kim, Hannah Green, Minji Lee. Yeah. Always back.
[00:16:09] Speaker B: The Aussies rank golf in the Australian sports hierarchy. How prominent is it?
[00:16:17] Speaker C: Pretty prominent with the population that we have. There's a lot of great golfers coming out of Australia.
Yeah. Especially after Covid as well. It's really boomed.
[00:16:27] Speaker B: Tom, favorite golfer, who do you love following?
[00:16:31] Speaker A: Followed. I loved Jack Nicklaus, Tiger Woods.
Super hyper competitive. And both of those guys were never out of it, and they would always find ways to win, and that was what I.
That separated them from the best.
[00:16:48] Speaker B: Have we reached the point where Jack Nicklaus and Tiger woods are not super relevant to current college golfers, or are they still good to pull out?
[00:16:56] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. This is the one that drives me nuts. So every now and then, I'll refer to players in the past or current players as far as something they do. Maybe I'll show a video or something. And we were at practice in the fall, and I can't remember which golfer it was, but. Okay. So I said something about Jack Nicklaus. I'm like, you know who Jack Nicklaus is? And she looked at me and goes, no. I'm like, oh, dear God, that's terrible.
Yeah. So I'm old, but that dates me. But.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: Well, I noticed this with basketball. When I asked basketball players questions, they've moved past Michael Jordan. It's not a slight to Michael Jordan. It's just generationally, they've kind of. They've kind of moved on. So the same thing would happen in golf.
[00:17:30] Speaker A: No, no. Michael Jordan is the goat. No question.
I still think Jack is on the golf side. Tiger's really good. If he had completed his career on the path he was, I think he would have been, but.
Yeah, but. Oh, that just stuns me about Michael Jordan, too. We gotta educate the owners.
[00:17:48] Speaker B: Okay. Mackenzie, you were shaking your head no. So you are still familiar with Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods. That still means something to you?
[00:17:54] Speaker C: Definitely. Definitely.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: Okay, what about your teammates? If you went into the locker room, I guess golf doesn't really have a. Well, do you have a locker room over there in the team? You have a team room. If you went in the team room and said Jack Nicklaus or Tiger woods, how many of your teammates would respond? How many of them would just have a blank look?
[00:18:08] Speaker C: I would hope all of them, but now that coach has said that, I'm not sure.
[00:18:13] Speaker B: Okay, that sounds like a good team building exercise.
[00:18:15] Speaker C: Yeah, I think everyone would know who Tiger woods is.
[00:18:17] Speaker A: Like, yeah, they would all know who Tiger woods is, but I'd be surprised.
[00:18:21] Speaker C: Jack Nicklaus as well.
[00:18:23] Speaker A: I would think there's probably four girls on the team who would not know who Jack Nicklaus is. That's my guess.
We should do that out there today and we'll just say, okay, everybody know who Jack Nicklaus is? Raise your hand.
[00:18:35] Speaker B: We'll find out.
[00:18:36] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:37] Speaker B: What about female professional golfers? Who would be the top names that people in that locker room would. Would know or respond to?
[00:18:44] Speaker C: Annika Sorensen, hopefully.
[00:18:46] Speaker B: Yeah, that would have been my first guess.
[00:18:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:49] Speaker C: Kari Webb, hopefully.
[00:18:52] Speaker A: I don't know if they would.
She was good.
[00:18:54] Speaker C: Yeah. Really good.
Other than that, I don't know.
[00:18:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Now, Nellie Cord. I mean, it sounds like this would.
[00:19:02] Speaker B: Be a good project for women's golf. Golf history session.
[00:19:05] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:19:06] Speaker B: Mackenzie, favorite golf course. What's the favorite one you've ever played?
[00:19:11] Speaker C: Anything on the sand belt in Australia is amazing, but I think Kingston Heath or Victoria Golf Club would be my favorite.
[00:19:18] Speaker B: Okay. Now, you said sand.
[00:19:20] Speaker C: The sand belt, yeah. In Melbourne, there's a whole bunch. Huntingdale, Metro, Commonwealth Bunch, Peninsula Kingswood is also one of my favorites.
[00:19:30] Speaker B: So how are the courses in Australia? How do they differ from. I guess there is no typical American course, but in general, what's the difference? Just in the geography or the grass? Those kind of things.
[00:19:40] Speaker C: Usually less rough, so if you miss the green, you're usually a lot further away rather than being green side in the rough.
Other than that, pretty much the same. It really depends where you go in Australia. Same with here.
[00:19:56] Speaker B: Tom, favorite golf course?
[00:20:00] Speaker A: Lots of them.
My wife and I honeymooned in Sandpoint, Idaho, and played a golf course called Hidden Lakes. And I think it's now called the Idaho Club.
And it's cut out of the marshes on the north end of Lake Pend Oreille just outside of Sandpoint. And we saw moose walking in front of a couple of the greens.
There's Several blind shots, but it's just densely wooded and it might have been the experience of doing under honeymoon, but I mean that was. I've always loved that golf course. That's probably the one I'd want to play again.
[00:20:34] Speaker B: I guess we should mention you've played. We have some excellent golf courses in this state. You played Colbert Hills and you played Prairie Dunes, which is unique. MacKenzie, tell us about Prairie Dunes and what makes it such a good experience to play that course.
[00:20:47] Speaker C: I loved Prairie Dunes.
I think each time we played played completely different. The wind got up, then it got soggy because of the rain. But then another day it was sunny and dry. It was a little bit easier. So yeah, you just really don't know what you're going to get on that golf course and you have to play shots there. You can't get away with just hacking it around a little bit. You have to play shots.
[00:21:13] Speaker B: Tom described Prairie Dunes for the uninitiated and what makes it such a good experience?
[00:21:18] Speaker A: The greens are incredibly difficult to play. There's a lot of sloping off the green. So if you're not landing the ball in the right spot, the ball is not staying on the green. And then you'll have some crazy pin locations where you're, you might 15, 20ft away from the hole, the putts breaking eight or nine feet. You just don't see that on a normal golf course. And especially the speed of the greens that, that also go into that. Like she said, you got to play shot serious. Your short game has to be immaculate. Your iron play's got to be really good. And especially if the wind is blowing, you've got to be able to control the ball into the wind, whether it's trajectory or curvature of the golf ball. But you have to be so intelligent in how you play out there. You can't just hack it around and expect to put up a number.
[00:22:02] Speaker B: Prairie Dunes has been the site of a lot of high level golf tournaments, perhaps most notably 2002 US Women's Open. Julie Inkster won that. So it is. If you are a golf fan, that's definitely one place to see or place to be here in the state of Kansas.
MacKenzie, recommend a book, a movie, a podcast. What should the people out there be listening to or reading?
[00:22:23] Speaker C: I love the Howie Games podcast. It's a Australian sports podcast and he does a really good job. There was a Ohio State football player on there, the punter. He did a great job. So yeah, listen to that one.
[00:22:39] Speaker B: Tom, what's your recommendation?
[00:22:42] Speaker A: I've got a couple books. I always go to the Bible first. That one is my go to just resets me before I get into anything, making sure I'm coaching well, thinking well.
I have really liked It's a book by Mike Krzyzewski, Leading with the Heart goes through his basic coaching philosophy, how he ran the program, talks about some of the key players he's had in his program and program development. I think it's an absolute read if you're a coach or even just a person wanting to better yourself.
[00:23:12] Speaker B: Wichita State women's golf is coming off in strong fall. They get started again February 20th tournament in Arizona. Tom McCurdy and Mackenzie Wilson, thank you very much for your time.
Thank you for listening to the Roundhouse Podcast courtesy of Wichita State University Strategic Communications. We encourage you to rate, review and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can find more roundhouse
[email protected] driven.
[00:23:52] Speaker A: To center and well struck. And Lucas is there. She's got it and that is the ball game. And look at the celebration for Wichita State as they have ended the Cowgirls 14 game winning streak in a dandy from Wilkins Stadium 8 to 7.
