[00:00:15] Speaker A: Hello. Welcome to the Roundhouse Podcast with Paul Sullentrop of Wichita State University Strategic Communications. Thanks very much for listening. Our guests today are Muhammad Balut. He is Wichita State's Director of Mental Health. Started in that position in the athletic department in March.
He previously worked for WSU's Counseling and Psychological Services. Muhammad is a WSU graduate. Mali hall is the assistant director for Mental Health, and she joined the department in 2023. She played softball at Saginaw Valley State University in Michigan. Over the past two years, the athletic department of Wichita State has invested a lot in the area of mental health, and we're here to discuss that. Mohammad, let's start with your background. How did you get into the mental health and athletics?
[00:00:58] Speaker B: Yeah, so I think from a very young age, two things that really stood out about me was that I really loved sports. And whether that was watching or playing whatever, I could get my hands on anything that was competitive, honestly. Like, I just constantly tried to get get involved with.
And the other thing was that I was just very curious about how things worked and more specifically, what drove people's behavior.
So I would ask my parents kind of endless questions about, why does this person do this? Why did this person do that? And sort of drove them crazy with just the number of, like, why, why, why?
And so as I got further through my education, that interest turned into a bachelor's in psychology, and then later on a PhD in clinical psychology.
And then, you know, that that interest in sports had never really left. So I've always been very competitive, and once I saw this opportunity to kind of bring these two areas of my life together, it just made perfect sense for me. I was like, let's try this out. Let's see if I can bring these two things that I love into a profession.
[00:02:04] Speaker A: Molly, how about you? How did you find your way from the softball field into mental health?
[00:02:09] Speaker C: Growing up, I come from a family that is just basking in sport constantly.
My parents played sports in high school and stuff like that. Both of my siblings played, played, you know, collegiately. And so we always kind of similar to Muhammad. Like, we're a competitive family, whether it's Monopoly, pickleball, whatever. Like, there's always competition or competition.
But as a former student athlete, I kind of had my own struggles. And I couldn't tell you where our counseling department was. I know we didn't have this resource. And after finding out that this was even an option for athletes, I was like, man, I'm kind of a little bit more interested in what this looks like. I Think when I was a student athlete, unless you were like with a professional organization or maybe at like a bigger institution, this wasn't really as present in athletic departments like it is today. And so I enjoyed coaching as well, and that was kind of how I stayed involved with sport. And when I noticed that I was more, I guess there's more of appeal than just the sports skill. I wanted to figure out, how can we translate this to what's happening off the field, off the court.
And sports psychology was the way that I did that. And so I knew I wanted to be in helping professional and had a bachelor's in health science and then went on to get a master's in clinical mental health as well as sport and human performance. So I think very similar to what Mohammad said is just an opportunity to really bridge together those two passions.
[00:03:35] Speaker A: Which member of the hall family is most likely to get frustrated because they landed on Park Place and throw their top hat across the room and storm out?
[00:03:43] Speaker C: I think it depends on who's ahead at the time.
Those are probably some of the games where they can get a little intense and we have to step away for a second or it's just like no one wants to back down from it. So we're gonna finish the game out until we have a clear cut winner.
[00:03:58] Speaker A: Okay. Love it. Those kind of family, family game nights are pretty important.
So why is Wichita State putting resources into mental health? Take us through the, I guess the timeline.
[00:04:11] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think over the last five to ten years or so, there has been more of an increased attention towards mental health. Even just specifically at WSU, there's been some PhDs that were previously at counseling and Psychological Services that would come over and do some work with the student athletes. And then at one point we had someone that was kind of just splitting time between there. And honestly, from what I've heard, when Kevin Saul got here as our athletic director, he made it very well known that we need to have a mental health program in house. Right. And so we really began developing this program.
I think that there's also been more initiative from the ncaa.
Every year the NCAA releases their mental health best practices. And right now, you know, they're pretty comprehensive and they touch on a lot of different things. And I think universities are responding to that by putting more resources towards mental health.
And then even outside of all of that, like much more, much broader, is that the culture has changed. Right. We have a generation that is much more willing to speak up about the things that they're going through.
And I think there's more recognition that in the past, these student athletes, it wasn't just that they were, like, super resilient and they never had any problems. But these problems were there all along, but were just bringing more light to it now. And so with that being the case, spending more resources, spending more time investing in mental health has become more and more important.
[00:05:39] Speaker A: Molly, when did that atmosphere in sports begin to switch from, tough it out, don't complain to what we're moving into now? As Muhammad said, it's important to talk about mental health.
How have you seen that shift during your time in the field?
[00:05:56] Speaker C: I think for, like, again, I'm just going to kind of reflect on my own journey as a student athlete. Like, once athletes and even some of the coaches that are more well known, I know, like, Kevin Love was a huge one for the NBA. We started seeing more athletes at the professional or Olympic level even talking about their struggles. It's like, oh, so these athletes, these superhumans, if you will, they're also just human beings who have similar issues that we're going through. And so I think by people speaking out on it more, it made universities and organizations want to take more of a holistic approach in terms of how they're supporting athletes. I think that's a big, you know, big reason into why Wichita State has the resources that they do. And so it's not necessarily that people have to toughen up, but we have to learn how to respond to things. And we have to understand that at the end of the day, we are a person before an athlete. And so I think that's a big, big reason why we're seeing that culture shift today.
[00:06:56] Speaker A: Mohamed, is there a pioneering coach or athlete who really helped get this started in your mind?
[00:07:02] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, I think that there's always been an interest in the combination of psychology and sports, and you can see that even as early as, like, the 1800s. But the majority of that was really focused on performance and not mental health.
More recently, I would definitely say it's going to be the athletes like what Mali mentioned, Kevin Love, he had a great article on the athletic that he released that, you know, really walk through his journey with depression, going to therapy. I think even before that, Michael Phelps, like, renowned Olympian, he's talked in multiple interviews about his struggles with depression and suicidality. More recently, we have athletes like Naomi Osaka, Noah Lyles and Simone Biles all coming out talking about their struggles.
And I really think, like, those are the pioneers that we're going to look back at and say, like, thank goodness that they spoke up when they did because they brought so much more attention to that. That helps this next generation.
[00:07:57] Speaker A: When Simone Biles or Kevin Love talks about these kind of issues, is that helpful for you? Do you use them as examples?
[00:08:05] Speaker C: Definitely, definitely. I think with Simone Biles situation, for example, she took time away. And so I think as an athlete, sometimes they're like, we can't, especially with just the demands that they have today. Like, when am I supposed to take this break? How am I supposed to, you know, take time off and keep up with what is going on? And so I think by them coming out and talking about that, it makes it more normal and it normalizes the fact that like you have to have this balance there. If you don't have this balance, you know, they can lead to these issues.
[00:08:40] Speaker A: Mohammad why should mental health be part of the routine? Maybe thought about similarly to strength and conditioning?
[00:08:48] Speaker B: I think it's really as I think a lot of people may know that mental health can be just as physical as physical health. You know, for somebody that's struggling with some amount of nervousness before either a big speech or some presentation or something like that, they might notice their hand shaking, right? And so, you know, we have a lot of evidence to show that our performance is impacted by where our mental is, right? So if you are struggling with confidence, if you're struggling with a mental health disorder disorder, right. We're going to see dips in your performance one way or another.
And so if we really are thinking about like maximizing the talents and pushing the limits of these student athletes in a healthy way, we have to recognize that a significant part of that is also where their mentality is at.
You know, if we just think very simply about like the impacts of, you know, mental health disorders on sleep, we know that people that are sleep deprived or student athletes that are sleep deprived are injured at a higher rate. They get injured about 70% at a higher rate than a well rested student athletes.
And they also tend to get tired more quickly and experience fatigue at larger levels. So just like some very little things that we know right away that indicate that like, okay, we are going to see performance dips because of of struggles with mental health.
[00:10:09] Speaker A: That's really interesting. What's the link between lack of sleep and injury?
[00:10:14] Speaker B: Well, so what I think it is is that when we lose sleep, we tend to see deficits in executive functioning which become things like motor control, decision making, things like that. And so it could be that you just have a delayed response to one incident or there's Less control on your end about being able to move your body in a specific way.
So if we are seeing that someone isn't able to maintain their attention quite as much, they might not be as aware of where their body is. It could be also that they're not getting the amount of rest that they need to fully recover their body. And so if they've done, like, strength training the night before or the day before, and then they get really poor sleep, their body hasn't completely recovered. Right. And so then they go back into strength training, and then all of a sudden, oh, my gosh, my bicep hurts, or like, my back is kind of killing me, things like that.
And so that's where I would say that link lies.
[00:11:07] Speaker A: We obviously want to protect confidentiality, which is an important part of what you do, but we also want to give people a look at your work. What's an example of a success story that you can share that would illuminate the time that you spend with athletes?
[00:11:22] Speaker C: Definitely, that's a tough question, Paul, because there's a lot of. I feel like there's a lot of success stories, and I think one way to kind of summarize that, you know, without the confidentiality pieces, our success is seeing our clients being able to walk away with more confidence in how they're able to, you know, whether it's handling adversity within their families or, you know, communication, finding a. Finding a healthier balance or, you know, sometimes they have habits that they want to work on and being able to have that control over. And so I know sometimes I always tell athletes, I'm like, as long as you like, my guarantee is 1% better.
May not fix everything, but if you can leave 1% better, then that's a success for me. And so sometimes I think we get that direct feedback from our clients of, like, you know, thank you so much. This helped. And other times for us, a way for us to say is that, hey, their performance is back on track or they're actually doing better, seeing their relationships improve with additional support staff and coaches. So I think for us, that's our success, and not necessarily that we're working for these major success stories, but we just want them to be successful as an athlete and as a person.
[00:12:35] Speaker A: Mohammed, how about you? Examples of success stories or techniques that can work in a broad way?
[00:12:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I think when it comes to techniques, there's a few things that sports psychologists have really identified that. What I found really interesting as going through my training as a clinical psychologist is that there's Just such great overlap with what we might talk with somebody about in therapy. Right. Whether that's present moment awareness, being aware of the things that you're feeling in your body and what's going on in your situation. Right. We might call that mindfulness skills. When it comes to working in therapy. Other things that are oftentimes emphasized are like visualization. Right. And that's something that we can walk someone through, whether that's something that's more performance related or something that's more mental health related.
There's also going to be work that's being done on motivation, work that's going to be done on confidence.
And all of these can be kind of framed as like, okay, we're going to help you become a better athlete by like emphasizing those things, or we're going to help you become a more rounded human being by focusing on these things in different areas of your life rather than or other than just athletics.
[00:13:39] Speaker A: So a athlete shows up at Wichita State first day as a newcomer. How do you go about really embedding, I guess, mental health into their time as a shocker? Mali, I'll let you go first on that.
[00:13:52] Speaker C: I think for us it's just like making it like, I guess taking away the stigma that mental health has to be, maybe this negative thing or only seeking assistance when there's a problem.
Mental health can be fun and I think we do that in our team sessions. But just starting the conversation for some people, they don't have those conversations at home or the communities they're coming from. So just talking about what that looks like for them, engaging a little bit more instead of saying just how are you doing today? Okay, how are you doing? What's going on? Is there anything that you need help with? Kind of getting them more familiar with those conversations and being comfortable with having it and then just really looking for any way that we can get them connected. And so whether that's through team sessions, if it's programming that we're providing to all students. And also too, I think another big thing is what we do with our staff.
If our staff are bought into what we're doing, they also can kind of help communicate that message, which is going to help with the buy in for the athletes.
[00:14:55] Speaker A: Mohamed, what's the. I don't know if balance is the right word, but you obviously want athletes, students, comfortable coming to you on their own. What's the balance between waiting on someone to come to my office versus this person needs to be perhaps gently guided toward me? How do you work that part of the job.
[00:15:15] Speaker B: Yeah. I think that really comes down to relationships and knowing the people that you're working with. Right. So if I don't know any members of a particular team, that's going to be a really difficult ask of like, okay, how exactly do I go about this? But if I have relationships with all them where they know who, they know who I am, they know that, like, while I might be a psychologist, I'm not somebody that's going to ask them, like, you know, tell me about your parents or tell me about your dreams or something like that. But like, I'm a normal guy. I just want to have like a casual conversation with them. Them, you know, that's one of those things where we can do assessments beforehand and that's something that we're starting up this year, which is we're doing these pre performance screenings to get a sense of like, what are, what's kind of the mental health like of our student athletes. Identifying people that might be having struggles before the season starts and then kind of always being there, whether that's at practices or at games, to sort of witness like, hey, what's happening within the group? Is this person maybe isolating themselves a little bit more? Is this person expressing a lot more frustration than they typically do and then, you know, utilizing the benefits of that relationship to have that conversation to pull them aside and say, like, hey, let's just talk about this. And kind of similar to what Mali said, trying not to make it like a big conversation, right? That like, you can talk about these things casually and just make it part of everyday dialogue. I think speaking to, you know, embedding that in athletics, it's really all about just normalizing it. Right. Like, make it a normal conversation to have so that when it does come up, we're not like scared or frightened about what sort of things might come out of it.
[00:16:45] Speaker A: So you started in March, toward the end of the school year. How did you go about, and how will you go about in the fall making those connections, being around, around the teams? What's your game plan for letting them know who you are and getting them comfortable?
[00:16:58] Speaker B: Yeah. So right off the bat I was like, okay, I need to get in contact with all the coaches and I need to get away. I need to find a way to get in front of the student athletes. Right. So I met with the coaches, got in front of the students, some of the student athletes.
Because it was kind of later in the year, it was a little bit harder to get in front of everybody, especially as some seasons are going On, But I think our plan for Mali and I right now is, you know, to meet with the coaches, set up some times, like throughout the season, where we're going to be in front of the student athletes, talking with them, telling them a little bit about what we do, and maybe making sure that they know that they can come to us for whatever reason. Right.
And then beyond that, like, not just being there for those setup meetings, but also like in impromptu situations where it's just like they've got a practice going on. Okay. Mally and I are there showing our faces, letting them know that we're here to support them even when they might not expect it.
[00:17:49] Speaker A: So we think a lot about mental health in terms of depression, dealing with problems, those kind of things. Mental health can also help with goal setting, team building. Mali, how does those kind of goals of mental health, how do they help the students?
[00:18:04] Speaker C: Definitely, I think for mental health, it doesn't. You know, we talk about, like, it doesn't just have to be the problems that are going on at the time. We also want to help students. I think with goal setting in particular, we want to reinforce the good habits that you have going. We want to make sure that the things that are going well aren't just like a one and done nature.
If we can make sure that we have a solid foundation, it makes it a lot easier for us to address maybe the concerns that come up later down the road. And two, it helps. You know, we were talking about resiliency earlier. That's really where the resiliency comes from, is I have these successes. I have these routines and these habits that I'm confident in. And I know that I can just essentially have this tool box that I can utilize whenever. And so, in a way, we're equipping our student athletes down the road to where maybe they don't need to necessarily come in, you know, for three weeks at a time and get assistance with goal setting or goal setting. They're able to do that on their own, and they might just check back in with us and say, this is what I did. This is how it's going. Are there any changes anywhere that you think I could do better?
[00:19:13] Speaker A: Muhammad, what's your number one tip for goal setting for an athlete or maybe for the parent of an athlete?
[00:19:20] Speaker B: I really try to orient people towards their values. Right. Getting a sense of, like, what is it that you want out of your life? What are the things that. That make you feel motivated and what drives you? Right. And I think once you have a better sense of what Your values are. You can really start to orient yourself towards what we call, like, process goals and outcome goals. Right. So like, an outcome goal might be something like, I can lift two or like, I can bench press two, 225. Right. And a process goal is like, every week I'm going to increase my bench press by five, by five pounds. Right. And so we can orient someone towards their values, figure out what's the thing that they want to strive for, and then set up a plan so that they're able to gradually work their way towards the goals that they want.
[00:20:04] Speaker A: We've talked about this a lot, but let's just directly talk about how mental health is linked to performance. Mental health.
[00:20:11] Speaker C: Ali, how would you describe that we're performing every day? You know, I would say, like, even in your role as you're leading us through this podcast, if you have outside factors with life or other relationships, that's going to come into play with how you show up at work. And so I think for us, performance is really just an avenue in which we're able to help student athletes and people learn skills, but also develop them. But it's just for us, it's an understanding that those skills aren't just for athletics or they're not just for your friendships. A relationship is a relationship. So when we're working on communication skills with our athletes in a team setting, that's going to be important for them when they start their career. It's going to be important for them when they are parents and things of that nature, if they go on to coach teams. So the skills that we are teaching them is very universal, and it's so that they can perform at their best in whatever they're doing.
[00:21:09] Speaker A: So I've got two grandchildren coming in later today, so I'm worried about blackout tents, sound machines and nap schedules. So that may be affecting my performance. Those kind of outside factors can affect that, definitely.
[00:21:23] Speaker C: I mean, it's a stressor, right? Not that you're excited that your grandkids are coming, but that can be a stressor. Maybe trying to figure out scheduling or where am I going to set them up and things like that.
Everyone may not look at it that way, but we all perform in different ways.
[00:21:37] Speaker A: Muhammad, how do you describe how mental health affects performance?
[00:21:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I really try to take a. Like, I think, Mali, your point was very humanistic, and I think I take a very statistical look at it. I mean, if we look at just how depression impacts your iq, right? If you take someone's IQ before they've experienced any depressive symptoms. And then while they're depressed, you're seeing a drop of about 10 points. Right. So, like, if you're striking average at 100, you're gonna get to 90 just from being depressed. So there's a pretty significant impact on just your intelligence overall.
Other things that I think are very relatable to a lot of people is, you know, you could be doing a puzzle and, like, having a good time with it, but the moment you have someone, like, stand over you and, like, watch you do that puzzle, all of a sudden there's this additional anxiety, maybe a little bit of social anxiety that shows up that, like, impacts how you're doing. Right. We talked earlier about the sleep problems that show up. You know, if someone's too anxious to go to bed, then that's going to be something that impacts them later down the line.
And we also know with depression, we have symptoms such as insomnia and hypersomnia. So not being able to get enough sleep and getting way too much sleep. Right.
And those certainly have their impacts.
And then even if we want to be more specific in terms of, like, eating disorders, which is pretty common amongst athletes, you know, that's going to have quite the impact on your physical health.
[00:23:00] Speaker A: Injuries will be a significant issue for many of the athletes that you deal with. Mallie, how do you deal with that in your job? How is mental health services helpful for a student athlete dealing with an injury?
[00:23:14] Speaker C: Definitely.
So injuries are, if you want to simplify it, it's a change, it's a transition. And so we're there to kind of help the athlete in terms of how they respond to that, making sure, you know, they're staying compliant with whatever that recovery process is. But also, too, how are we managing our stressors that correlate to that recovery process, or even how you're talking about with life stressors?
One thing that stress can do is it can weaken our immune system. So whether it's injury or even student athletes who are ill and it's illness that is causing them to miss practices or causing them to miss competitions, all of that comes into play with what we're doing. And so when we're looking at injury, we're really helping the athlete work on, how do I want to respond to this.
There's different factors that are going to impact how they respond to it. Do they have a, you know, a healthy support system doesn't mean they have 20 people, but do they have a support system they can lean on? Outside of the athletic department, are there other stressors Are they worried about financial stressors? Are there living concerns? All those things come into play and then really for us, do we need to help them get connected to resources? And I think the biggest part with injury is that it's a, if you will, it's a shock to your identity.
So if I have someone who is often injured or has experienced very severe injuries throughout their entire career, they may be a little bit more accepting of that process and okay, like just focusing on like the process versus the outcome, as Muhammad had mentioned, versus someone has gone their entire career hasn't experienced an injury and they have a potential season ending one as soon as they get, you know, their freshman year of college, that can be very devastating for them. So, and I think one way that we kind of help them better understand that is outside of a transition that comes with grief, it's a significant change for them.
It's a loss of identity, it's a loss of functioning. And so just really kind of helping them reframe it and work through it.
[00:25:18] Speaker A: Mohamed, what are some challenges unique to this generation that current athletes are facing?
[00:25:25] Speaker B: I think a lot of people are aware social media has done a number to pretty much everybody.
And I think one of the biggest ways that it's done that is it's just created an environment of constant comparison. You know, back before we had like videos that you could watch from like way across the world, like at an instant, you know, you kind of had your local community around you that was just like a few people and there wasn't, there's going to be people that you would compare yourself to if you're an athlete about like, oh, this person's really fast, this person can jump really far, things like that. But now we are really looking at like the best of the best all of the time. Right. And so it creates a very distorted view of like what progression looks like and what a person, where a person should be at in their life.
So with that comparison, we also have increased resources towards athletics as well as an increased financial investment in athletics. Right? So we have people that have said like, okay, because we have to put so much time and money into, into this, we're going to make this the only thing that you do. And as a result, you come out with a person that's only identity is around their athletic accomplishments. Right. And I think that there's a lot of great things that you can do by dedicating yourself to athletics as long as you also balance it out with other aspects of your life that round out your identity and So I think one thing that we come across are situations where student athletes are coming in and saying like, this is all I have. And for some of them, you know, that are going to be hanging up the cleats or putting up their uniform after their senior year, it's like, what do I do from here? How do I proceed beyond this? Because this is all I've known myself to be. And it's really like getting rid of those comparisons, building out that identity. I think that those are two major things that we see with this generation.
[00:27:13] Speaker A: So you're talking about a person who may have been in travel, softball or club volleyball since they were 10 years old.
And I've heard that phrase a lot.
I had to learn that I wasn't totally dependent on being a volleyball player. How do you walk them through this realization that, you know, there's a lot more out there and you're capable of a lot more than just simply your sport?
[00:27:38] Speaker C: I think one way that we do that is it's kind of interesting when we ask this question because you just kind of see this look on their face, like what you want me to think outside of my sport. But you know, when we talk about, you know, injury, for example, if I'm out and can't necessarily be in my full capacity of what my role was with the team, what are other hobbies or interests that you have?
Is it, you know, is it more of a creative lens? Is it, you know, is it creating music, is it knitting, is it drawing? Things like that.
But what are some of your other hobbies and interests that I think take a back seat to athletics? And so, and this kind of goes back to maybe with time management is helping them find a balance where yes, I need to train and make sure I'm at, you know, the top of my game to compete. But also too in order to do that I have to take care of me. So knowing that there's athletics, knowing that, you know, in a way we have to engage with the community and things like that, we're always on, how am I taking time to reset or to take a break? Our battery cannot run on, you know, full power all the time. Eventually your phone battery dies throughout the day, especially if you're using it all the time. Same thing for the athlete. So whether it's putting your phone on airplane mode, you might have to do that for yourself so that you can just rest and reset.
[00:28:57] Speaker A: So is there a position on multi sport athletes and mental health I would be a big advocate of you might be a really serious Baseball player. But it can be helpful to also play football or wrestle. Is there a mental health aspect to that?
[00:29:12] Speaker B: I would say definitely. Like there's going to be times where you probably have a talent that puts you at an advantage with some sports, right? So like if you have a young kid that's like super tall, he's probably going to excel at basketball, but if you get him involved in something like maybe soccer, where there's going to be more like dexterity required in like the fee, right? There could be more challenges that he faces, he or she faces upon doing that. And so what you, I think what you'd see with that is more resilience that's built up because they're, they're not just able to rely on their talent to, to succeed, but they have to grow through, go through kind of the stages that some of the kids in basketball might be struggling with in a different area. And I, I don't even know. It doesn't even need to be necessarily limited to sports, but it could be like, okay, we're gonna put you in the kitchen and we're gonna teach you how to cook, right? Like just challenging them in different ways so that they recognize like, okay, I can't just rely on like my God given talents, but I need to also be, you know, put in a lot of effort, put in a lot of time and really, you know, challenge themselves in a new way.
[00:30:21] Speaker A: I hear comparison is the thief of joy a lot around here. Is that a good way to start a discussion about social media?
[00:30:30] Speaker C: I would say so. That's something that I think just talking about like what social media brings to today's athlete is whether, you know, I think about when you look at like a fitness trend or something like that, it's like, wow, this person did it for three weeks. And it's like, ah, I don't know if that's realistic. So I think sometimes the comparison presents an unrealistic view and that can also lead to disappointment or defeat with athletes. And I think just helping them understand like kind of what's realistically happening, yes, you can get to this point, but it may not be what that person's point of view is. And just because, you know, you see one person or multiple people do it this one exact way doesn't mean it's going to play out that way for you. So we all are different and I think just kind of helping them understand that helps with that comparison aspect.
[00:31:21] Speaker A: How do you get them to put away their screen? What are the tips or techniques that you might walk a youngster through to help with this. Mohammed, how do you approach that part of this problem?
[00:31:32] Speaker B: I think it really comes down to encouraging just pure social interaction, even if it's very uncomfortable, even if it's with people that they're not entirely familiar with. Just make the process more human rather than one that's like electronic or digital. Right. I think people are oftentimes very surprised to know that you can just strike up a conversation with a stranger and the majority of the time they're going to be willing to have part of that conversation. Right.
And so I always try to encourage people like, you know, orient yourself towards your values, make some goals and spend more time just engaging with people on a human level. Right. Like for the last few thousand years, that's all we've been doing. Right. And that seems to have worked out for a lot of people. So let's see if we can go back to the basics here and focus on just those one on one interactions where you get to see people's expressions, where you get to feel their emotions when you're in the room with them.
I always really try to emphasize that element of things.
[00:32:31] Speaker A: My idea is to have a week where all the student athletes agree not to wear headphones or earbuds around campus. Can we get that? Can we get that on the calendar for the this fall?
[00:32:39] Speaker C: Might be something, I don't know. We'll try to see if we can get a week, but I think a couple days. I think even as you say that, I'm thinking about, you know, when you go to the grocery store now, how many people have headphones on shopping. And I've definitely.
I have some clients who are like, you know, how do I have this conversation? I asked Chad gbt and I was like, that's great. But there's still part of that answer that they're not able to give you. And that's the emotion side of it or the unpredictableness of what a conversation might be. So I'm like, go to the grocery store and just talk to a stranger. Just see how it goes.
Hopefully they don't have headphones on, but just see how that conversation goes. You might be surprised afterwards.
[00:33:17] Speaker A: I think that would be a good project for SAC is to get no earbud day.
I try to say hello to people I pass walking around campus. And now if you have headphones on, I'm definitely saying hello to you just to try to make you a little bit, bit uncomfortable and perhaps thinking about it. So I had Will Berg and Emmanuel Okorafor from the basketball team in here, their phrase was. And they're both older guys, so they've been through it a little bit. They are slimming their social media. Is that good advice for a young student to think about?
[00:33:48] Speaker C: I would definitely say so. That's something I know Muhammad was kind of talking about the techniques of, you know, turning your screen off.
Some of them are a little reluctant to that and it's. So then my advice to them would be, make sure your social media reflects what your values are and what you want to accomplish.
If it's, you know, let's just say someone has more of a negative mindset and we're like, okay, what's on your social media? Like, I keep hearing you talk about TikTok or Instagram, what you're seeing, and then all you're seeing is this negative stuff over and over. Well, yeah, eventually that's gonna, you know, that's going to wear on you, and it's going to change your perspective of things. So I would definitely say whatever your values are and what you're trying to achieve, make sure that your timeline mimics that. Otherwise you're kind of contradicting yourself, especially if you spend quite a bit of time there.
[00:34:38] Speaker B: And I gotta say, like, as much as, you know, social media can be a detriment to people, I think it's also something that's not going away. Right. And so kind of like, to what Mali's saying, like, finding the appropriate relationship with social media and, you know, your human existence. Right. Is really important, especially towards one of the things that Molly said. Like, social media is often, you know, the. The algorithms that are behind it show you the things that, like, you've been looking at. So if you're going through, like, a little bit of a depressive episode and you're listening to sad music, kind of listening to some pretty somber things and stuff like that. That's all it's going to show you. And it's not going to stop until you change. Right. And so being very intentional about the things that you put in front of you, sort of the advertising and just the commentary that you see in front of you is essential towards, like, getting your mental space in the right direction.
[00:35:31] Speaker A: I'm sitting here behind the desk being very judgy, but I'm as guilty as anybody. There's just a lot of good time wasting stuff out there, for sure. Mohammed, is there a type of student, maybe not even an athlete. Student athlete, who. Who does well under this kind of current environment that you can learn from and that can be instructive going forward.
[00:35:51] Speaker B: I think it's one that really divides their attention to different parts of their life. Right. So towards what we were speaking to earlier, where their identity has been rounded out a little bit more, whether that's from their own initiatives or that was something that their parents really emphasized. Just having a number of different things that they can look to as, like, this is important to me. This is important to me where if they don't do so well on their, like, at their. At their game or something like that, they can still think like, well, at least I'm still a good brother. Like, I'm still a good student and things like that and not have that significant hit to their identity.
I think other things are just having more mental resilience. Right. Recognizing that struggles and failures aren't a. Are an indication that you yourself are a failure, but that it's part of a process. And these are things that I think, like, very early on are very important.
I've been thinking about kind of Malle and the role that Mali and I are in, and it's one that we would consider tertiary prevention. Right. Where we are kind of preventing an issue that or we're trying to address an issue that's already occurred. Whereas I really look at, like, parents as being kind of the primary preventers. Right. Where they can establish the mind. Mindsets and they can establish their perspectives. That's going to allow these student athletes to be much more successful later down the line and not hindered as much by what's going on in their heads.
[00:37:13] Speaker A: What is your advice if a parent were to pull you aside and say, my child is 12, they're pretty good athletically.
What should I be doing to set a good foundation? Mali, I'll let you go first on that.
[00:37:25] Speaker C: I think kind of similar to what Mohammad was saying, having a foundation, and we were talking about earlier just kind of benefits of like, multiple sports or different interests and activities.
Creating an environment in a space where it's okay to fail.
It's okay to, you know, fail and say, like, man, that sucked.
Great. I don't want you to run from that. Because if we run from that, if I'm in a space where I can't, I'm eventually going to shut down. And we definitely don't want that to happen. So think allowing them to fail and then teaching them how to recover from the failure, and whether that is with sport or life, relationships, friendships. But again, it comes back to just normalizing that you're not going to be great and Everything, you're not going to be happy about everything that you do, but how can we show up and do it better the next day? I think that's something that parents can definitely help with.
And those life, like I said, those skills aren't just in regard to athletics. That's just a life skill.
[00:38:29] Speaker A: Muhammad, what's your advice for parents?
[00:38:32] Speaker B: I think one of the biggest things that we've seen evidence on just in the psychological research is to focus on effort and attitudes rather than talent and winning. Right. So we've seen this especially when it comes to, like, teachers, you know, if a. If a student does really well on a test, rather than saying, like, you're so smart, like, you did a great job, saying, like, you put in really great effort. Right? Because I think then you start to de. Emphasize, like, talent and just gifts that a person has and emphasize the things that are going to help them later down the line, which is the effort that they put into their work.
I think other things that are really important is to try to move away from coaching. You know, there might be some circumstances where a parent really wants to be that coach figure for their kid, and we want the kid to recognize their parent as a safe space that they can go to talk about things. I can really imagine a situation where the dad tries to teach their kid how to play tennis, and they're really passionate about that, and then the kid's not really feeling it anymore. They could feel really anxious about going up to their dad, who's effectively acting as their coach, to say, I'm not really wanting to do this. And that can create some really challenging relationships later down the line.
And then the last thing I think about is just being a really good model for their kids, especially when it comes to emotion regulation. Right. You know, if we have parents kind of doing the Bob Knight thing of like, throwing, like, chairs onto the basketball court and things like that, like, their kids are going to see that and they're going to mimic that behavior later down the line because they see, like, hey, this is somebody I look up to. I'm going to engage in similar behaviors. So showing them that it's okay to have emotions, you can certainly get frustrated. You can get angry, you can get sad, anxious, things like that. But it's also important to regulate those things so that, like, you know, maybe we express a frustration and then we bring it back down. We cool, we cool off, and we're able to proceed in a more helpful way.
So those are the things I would say, like, for parents really emphasizing with Their with their kids.
[00:40:27] Speaker A: Do you have a book recommendation in this area that a parent might pick up?
[00:40:31] Speaker B: For sure. So on the performance performance side of things, I would say It Takes what It Takes by Trevor Moad.
He's since passed away, but he did a really great job of making these performance concepts really simple and pretty compelling. And then on the mental health side of things, I would really point towards what Made Matty Run by Kate Fagan.
It talks about a Division 1 athlete, track and field athlete, that in her, I think her second semester of college died by suicide.
And it really details like the pressures that she was under and her struggles just expressing what she was going through. And I think that book brought a lot more attention of like, okay, we really need to focus on just the mental health of these student athletes because, you know, if we tell them for so long, like, you know, put your head down, don't talk about it like they're not going to do that. And then we could have tragedies later down the line. So I think this book really highlights the importance of that.
[00:41:29] Speaker A: Give us those titles again.
[00:41:31] Speaker B: It Takes what It Takes by Trevor Moad. And what Made Mati Run by Kate Fagan.
[00:41:35] Speaker A: Mali. What's your book recommendation?
[00:41:38] Speaker C: My book recommendation is Quiet Leadership, Winning Hearts, Minds and Matches and it's by Carlo Ancelotti and so he's a coach in the European Soccer League. And it really emphasizes the importance of relationships not only with your, you know, as a coach, with your players, but with everyone in the organization and how everyone in the organization has a very important role in the overall success that we have. And so I think that can, you know, a lot can be learned, whether that's as a parent, an athlete, a coach, how relationships can impact how an athlete feels supported, an athlete's willing to compete, an athlete's willingness to just be a person and then seeing the long term effect of that relationship after their careers are over. Something that I always kind of talk about is, you know, after you're done coaching or after you're done even in our role, are you going to have someone that comes back and says, you know, thank you for this or are you going to have someone that talks about the positive influence that you had?
And so that's something for me, like relationships are huge. So I would definitely say Quiet Leadership, Winning Hearts, Minds and Matches is my book recommendation.
[00:42:55] Speaker A: Suspenders for Hope is a program started at Wichita State University, has a real positive influence on mental health efforts both at the university and around the city of Wichita. Tell us more about Suspenders for Hope.
[00:43:07] Speaker B: Yeah, as you said, Suspenders for Hope is a program that started at Wichita State University in 2015 that seeks to promote mental health wellness and prevent suicide, substance misuse and sexual violence in the surrounding community.
They showcase real stories of hope and provide educational trainings, really aiming to increase connections amongst people in the community and end stigma surrounding mental health. The Suspenders for Hope campaign has reached over 12 states and we've actually seen a reduction in the amount of suicide and overdose.
[00:43:38] Speaker C: Overdose.
[00:43:38] Speaker B: Overdose deaths in Wichita since this program has been started.
If you're interested in learning more about Suspenders for Hope and taking one of their trainings, you can visit their website at suspenders4. That's the number4hope.com you are hosting a.
[00:43:53] Speaker A: Mental health summit for student athletes. That's on September 30th. What do people need to know about this event?
[00:43:59] Speaker B: Yeah, so we'll be hosting. The mental health department will be hosting our very first mental health summit, which is proudly sponsored by Suspenders for Hope.
This event is a unique opportunity for current shockers to hear directly from former WSU student athletes as they open up about the mental health challenges and performance challenges that they faced and how they overcame those during their time as a student athlete. You know, conversations like these are really powerful. They help us break down the stigma around mental health, remind us of the strength that we have in our community and give us tools to be better support ourselves and each other.
A select number of donors will also be invited to attend the event and while we do have the date set at September 30th, we're still putting the final touches on the details.
So keep an eye on our social media channels and be sure to follow our new Instagram page.
That's Suathletics Mental Health all one word for the latest updates for the mental health summit.
[00:44:53] Speaker A: Mali Hobbies what do you do to relax when you're not helping student athletes?
[00:44:58] Speaker C: Oh man, I'm a big kid, so I think for me that's when I'm relaxing. I'm kind of channeling that part of my identity, whether that is, you know, hanging out with family and friends, getting outside competing. That's always something I go back to or even just kind of relaxing and watching some of my favorite movies.
[00:45:17] Speaker A: Muhammad, how about you? What do you do when you're not at work?
[00:45:20] Speaker B: Yeah, so I'm a huge movie nerd. I've got a whole movie class collection back at home. I just like collecting pieces of cinema.
Also enjoy playing some board games. I've come across some that are very competitive and let me engage in that competitive drive while my body deteriorates physically and just going on walks, biking, things like that. I really enjoy being out in nature.
[00:45:42] Speaker A: Movies are always a great discussion topic. Hit us with two or three of your favorites.
[00:45:45] Speaker B: Oh, gosh. I like some really old ones, so I'm gonna. I'm gonna mention those. I guess, more popularly would be Alien. I think that's a masterpiece. One of my favorites.
Another great one is a really old French movie called the 400 Blows that I'm very, very passionate about. And then a romance called in the Mood for Love. I think those are some of my. Like, I could watch those movies endlessly, honestly.
[00:46:08] Speaker A: I think a lot of people would be familiar with Alien and the famous scene of the monster popping. I'm spoiling this for some people, I guess. But the alien popping through the man's stomach. Why do you describe that movie as a masterpiece?
[00:46:20] Speaker B: I think it just does an excellent job at giving character to pretty much everyone on that ship. Right. Everyone has a distinct role and a distinct personality, and you really connect with them almost instantly. I think very early on, once they get out, they wake up from their cryo sleep, and you kind of see this scene where, like, the camera shows them all eating breakfast. It's almost like in that moment, you're just like, I kind of know who you are just by looking at the way that you're doing this. It's very physical.
There's so much great tension that's built in that movie, I think, like.
And just the concept in itself, like, you know, I don't know, that idea of, like, someone. An alien bursting through someone's chest and then very rapidly becoming this giant monster. Right. Is, like, terrifying. So I just. I love that movie so much.
[00:47:06] Speaker A: Mali. Then we'll ask you favorite movie.
[00:47:08] Speaker C: Oh, man. Man. I don't.
It's. My favorite movie is the Lion King. I have to. I'm so. I can watch it over and over again.
It's. It's something about, I think, just, like, passing the torch for me. I've always connected to. And then just the sense of community. Always coming back to community, no matter, you know, what the situation is, if you get lost or even if, you know, for him, he kind of shunned himself in a way, but always coming back to that sense of community and just really embodying what your destiny is.
[00:47:42] Speaker A: Mali, restaurant recommendation.
[00:47:44] Speaker C: Oh, man.
[00:47:45] Speaker B: Paul.
[00:47:45] Speaker C: I've been on a kick with Tacos TJ lately. 664 on West Street. And so we actually I tried them for the first time at Riverfest this year and I'm hooked. I'm hooked. So that's, that's my restaurant recommendation. I'm probably terrible at recommendations restaurants.
I know Muhammad's a big foodie and so there's sometimes I'm like, oh, I need to add that to my left or to my list. But right now Tacos TJ is, is my restaurant.
[00:48:10] Speaker A: What's your go to order there?
[00:48:13] Speaker C: I like their carne asada tacos and they're in their chicken tacos as well. So those are kind of my go to's and they also have a great burrito quesadilla. So if anyone's looking to have Mexican food, go for it. Go for it.
[00:48:28] Speaker A: Check it out. Muhammad, what's your recommendation?
[00:48:31] Speaker B: I can't say anything bad about TJ tacos. It's certainly a great option.
If I'm feeling a little bit more high end, I might be going to a place like Chesters or 6s. I'm a big fan of both of those.
But on just a normal night, like I love Medis. Like I think that is some great food. The owner is actually a family friend of ours. So like I always feel good supporting him and knowing that like it's in, it's from Wichita. Right. Like, and it's growing. I really like. I'd love to see Maddy's become much more widespread. So both of those, all those places are ones that I would, I would definitely find myself going to.
[00:49:04] Speaker A: We have a new person in the department and I told them a little bit about Wichita's history with Mediterranean foods. I don't think that would be, would not be an obvious thing you would think about Wichita. But there are many restaurants, Mehdi's being one of them where you can get that kind of food.
Muhammad Balut and Mali Hall. They are in Wichita State's athletic department, mental health department.
Thank you very much for your time.
[00:49:25] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:49:41] Speaker A: Thank you for listening to the Roundhouse podcast. Courtesy of Wichita State University Strategic Communications. We encourage you to rate, review and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can find more roundhouse
[email protected] she's.
[00:49:57] Speaker C: Just one of those players who could be a game changer though with one swing of the bat she can send it over the fence. We've seen her do it time and time again. Is she do with the.585 slugging percentage? 9 home runs on the season.
We'll see what they decide.
[00:50:11] Speaker B: Swinging away in a drive to center.
[00:50:13] Speaker A: Are you kidding another walk off.
[00:50:15] Speaker C: It is ball game.
[00:50:17] Speaker B: Witchita State State wins 2 walk off home runs today.
Bailey Lang in the first game and Lori Derico here.
And Witchita State has knocked off Central.
[00:50:45] Speaker A: Florida five to four.
