[00:00:14] Speaker A: Hello. Welcome to the Roundhouse Podcast with Paul Sullentrop of Wichita State University Strategic Communications. Thank you very much for listening. Our guest is Wichita State men's basketball assistant coach Josh Eilert. He joins us after Tuesday's 7470 win over over Wyoming in the first round of the NIT. Shockers will play at Oklahoma State on Sunday. We are still waiting on a time for that. Josh joined the Shockers staff in May from the University of Utah. He is a Kansan from Osborne, played at Cloud County Community College and Kansas State.
Josh. The Shockers ended up with 17 offensive rebounds, 18 second chance points. Wyoming coach Sundance Wicks said WSU's physical play and rebounding was as good as he had heard, as good as advertised.
Where does that emphasis on rebounding start with this team and how do you make it the main thing throughout such a long, grinding season?
[00:01:06] Speaker B: You know, it's always been important to Coach Mills. It's been important to myself, you know, with my pedigree between, you know, you go back to the West Virginia days, that was. That was who we were, you know, and several years we led the country in offensive rebound percentage. You know, a lot of people look at offensive rebounds, the number itself, but I think more importantly, when as a coach and we start analyzing things, you really got to look at the percentage and what percentage of opportunities are you getting when the shot's taken. And we continue to harp on it each and every day.
[00:01:38] Speaker A: And that's a great point. Sometimes a lot of offensive rebounds can indicate that you missed a lot of shots. So you mentioned the percentage. That's where you go to the site. Like Ken Pomeroy, the shocker's got 40% of available offensive rebounds. So that's a really good number, I would imagine.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, before, you know, when I got tabbed as the rebounding coach, you know, we kind of separate the responsibilities in terms of our staff and.
And rebounding got thrown in my lap and I was happy to take that on, especially, you know, with the way we used to play at West Virginia, and I think Coach Mills took that into account.
But, yeah, we looked at before the first game and before that first scrimmage, I looked at the, you know, the top 10 offensive rebounding teams in the country from a percentage standpoint. So, you know, we had those numbers ahead of the, ahead of the first game, that first scrimmage, and we said that's our goal. You know, we're looking at trying to get 75% of our defensive rebounding rate. So.
And we're looking into getting 36 plus each and every game from an offensive rebound rate. So that was our goal, to be in the top 10 in both.
We're right there, you know, top five and offensive rebounding percentage. But we're just right there, you know, breaking into the top hundred in terms of defensive rebounding percentage. So there's a lot to be worked on, and we continue to harp on the defensive rebounding side of things, but especially when you throw out five, two, five, ten guards out there, it can make things a little hairy.
[00:03:08] Speaker A: In terms of defensive rebounding, what's your favorite rebounding drill?
[00:03:13] Speaker B: You know, I always call. I even throw back to Coach Muff. You know, at Cloud county, we used to do the Superman drill.
And so it's. We always say opposite and inside, and we don't care if there's, you know, just, you know, we don't care if there's three guys on the opposite side. So get opposite. The shot's taken. You know, typically there's around 75 to 80% of shots go long.
And so we're flooding the weak side and sending two, three guys.
And a lot of teams will send four.
We have no lineup to where we send more than three to the offensive class. So that makes our number even more impressive.
[00:03:52] Speaker A: Is there a coach that you worked for or team that you were on that really hammered home the importance of rebounding that you feel like you look back on? And that was formative.
[00:04:02] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, Coach Huggins, you know, that was one of his fortes, was rebounding and toughness and the physicality of the game and how important the weight room is in the game of basketball. So those years with him were very important to me in terms of, you know, putting that stamp on who I am as a coach. And I'm trying to bring some of that toughness and rebounding to this Wichita State team.
[00:04:28] Speaker A: So the big men, obviously, are critical to those rebounding efforts. Take us through the season. The improvements where you've seen progress. Will Berg, Emmanuel Okorafor, and freshman Noah Hill.
[00:04:40] Speaker B: You know, I like each and every one of those guys. You know, I really hope we have those guys continue to. To build upon what they've built this year. You know, we're sitting here not knowing what e man's situation is going to be, whether we're going to have him for another year or whether he's going to have another year of eligibility.
And Will. Will start with Will. You know, he's top 10 of all the players in the country in offensive rebound percentage. And so, you know, you look at all the players in Division 1 basketball that's, you know, probably, you know, close to 4,000 players, he's in the top 10, you know, and he should be a good offensive rebounder. 7.
You know, you look at all those guys and you watch the film and break it down. They're sending two, three bodies at him, and it's making a world of difference for Dylan Petit, you know, Karan Boyd, T.J. williams, you know, with 14 rebounds yesterday. Because those guys, you know, between Will and E. Man, they're sending a lot of bodies at him. And those fours, those threes can really knife in there and clean up some of those extra O boards as well.
[00:05:44] Speaker A: That's a great point. So you noticed that on film, Will has. Attracts so much attention and it leaves room for other guys.
[00:05:50] Speaker B: Absolutely. You know, and I continue to tell those guys and even T.J. you know, I never thought I'd see the day. He gets 14 rebounds. And, you know, that first. That first scrimmage and you go back to the Drake scrimmage, and I forget that he's a freshman. You know what I mean?
I came in here in June and I just really didn't see him as a freshman in any way. I know he's a redshirt freshman, but I remember that Drake scrimmage in the post game film. We put a lot of pressure on. On TJ he's talked about that. We've been very. We were very critical of his effort and everything. And. And to be honest with you, looking back on it, I'm thinking. I'm thinking maybe TJ was sandbagging us because he really, you know, he's come a long ways with his activity, and he's been a critical part of this. And. And I think it's such a special thing being from Wichita to be able to rep Wichita State. And it means a lot to him. And. And. And not that it means it doesn't mean a lot to all these other guys representing Wichita State, but TJ Is probably a little different. And so he took that personally and understood he had to grow. And for us to be successful, we needed him to step up and give us these big moments he's been giving us.
[00:07:02] Speaker A: So I think fans have seen enough of Noah Hill to be intrigued. He clearly can dunk, he's athletic, had the big play to deflect the inbounds pass against Ecuador that people have talked about, but he's been a lot behind the scenes. What are you working with with him behind the scenes? And how is he improving?
[00:07:19] Speaker B: Probably just a skill level more than anything. He's got every intangible in terms of physicality, in terms of his quick twitch.
If I pulled Will in here and I pulled Eman in here and say, who do you want to go against and practice, I promise you it's not Noah.
So Noah brings that type of. He's like a bull in China House. And. And he's only going to continue to get better and better and I hope.
And when I go home at night, I really hope I see that guy for four years because he's got such a great upside and such a high ceiling. Now the skill is going to come. It's going to come and we're going to work on the skill and his touch, handling the ball, passing the ball, understanding the game in terms of what's expected of him, you know, in defensive situations, you know, and making sure that we can really rely on him in every situation that the game demands from a coaching perspective. But man, does he have the tools. And I can't wait to see his development in the next couple years.
[00:08:25] Speaker A: He has been fun to watch, no doubt, and is entertaining in practice. I can see where he really pushes the two older guys just with his tenaciousness. You mentioned TJ Williams. He had a fabulous game against Wyoming. 17 points, 14 rebounds.
Really important in the finals. 7, 8 minutes for the Shockers. After the game, Paul Mills talked about the decision they were doing so much to guard Kenyon Giles. We're going to give the ball to TJ and let him operate, I think was the word that Paul used. Take us through that decision. How does that kind of bubble up on the sidelines and how does that choice get made?
[00:09:00] Speaker B: You got to give credit to Kenyon Giles too. You know, he's understanding the way they're guarding him. The more he can become a screener, they're not going to leave him. So you know, when teams start switching when we're out there and they get confused, KG can really get into open spaces and get that shot off. And so like when he becomes a screener and he can, he can step up and make step up screens for TJ going downhill. And TJ just being such a great connector, you know, he's a key, connects to everybody and he can make the pass, he can break pressure just because he's that pressure release, he's that secondary ball handler on the team that's been so critical to us just gelling as a team offensively.
[00:09:43] Speaker A: You mentioned screens. We were going to talk about that because they are a big part of this offense. Boy, if you are trying to guard Kenyon Giles, you are going to have to navigate through a bunch of big bodies.
How do you teach good screening? Let's just start with the basics. How's it, how's it start?
[00:09:56] Speaker B: Well, you can't teach size and size. And if you get your feet set and you get Will Berg up there close to half court and you got Ken and Giles, they deferred. One of our point guards defers it to him and you got Will Berg and you're trying to navigate that screen and Biggs in terms of in transition, typically they're going to be thinking rim, protect the rim. And when you get a 7 foot 2 guy and will Burr coming there, turning around, setting drag screens for a shooter like that, that was critical to our success there a month and a half, six weeks ago to where we were really relying on some of those early drags and getting your feet set, using that big body to your advantage. And Kenyon Giles is so good at reading it and understanding space that it's been a problem and a headache for a lot of these teams.
[00:10:48] Speaker A: What's the best way to teach screens? I don't know.
[00:10:50] Speaker B: There's the best way to teach screens. It's like you either love physicality or you don't. And it certainly comes into play. The more we harp on it, the better we are at it.
There's teams that really die on screens and it really affects them from an emotional standpoint. You know, you get hit by a big body and some of those guys that really can't handle physicality, it really, it really hinders, you know, them moving forward to the next possession. And it's certainly something we need to continue to harp on just like we do rebounding, you know, the more space we can create for our guards, the better off everybody's going to be on the floor.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: Yeah, there's probably a psychological toll. Offensive reboundings can be disheartening for other team. And I would guess having to pound through screens would also take it.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I look back at the Memphis game here at home, you look at and we weren't setting illegal screens by any means, but you know, we put Doug McDaniel out for half the game because he ran to a big Will Burg screen. You know, Ashton Hardaway hit a screen from Will Berg, Emmanuel Okorafor end up setting somebody out. You know, there's three really big screens, physical screens, they're not dirty screens. They're just, you know, within the rules of the game. But when you can put that type of physicality into the game of basketball, it really pays dividends.
[00:12:10] Speaker A: So you mentioned Kenyon Giles on screens. He can really help the offense with his screening. Describe how that works.
[00:12:15] Speaker B: Well, when you're a really good shooter, you're going to get way better shots when you're a good screener.
So. And you're going to get a lot of your teammates shots, especially when guys like Kenny Giles and they're not going to switch off him, they're going to stay connected. So you're going to create quite an advantage when they're not switching if you're a good screener. So they always said in college basketball and basketball in general, the best screeners get the best shots. And he's kind of understood that. Throughout the course in the transition of
[00:12:44] Speaker A: this year, I've enjoyed watching Michael Gray Jr. Even when maybe he's not shooting as well as he would like, he's helped this team in kind of some rough and tough ways. He had two charges that he took last night. He had a steal, five assists. Describe Michael as a defender. He seems to play an important role, being in the right place at the right time and being pretty physical for a guard.
[00:13:05] Speaker B: Yeah, especially from day one when we came in, you know, and Mike Gray came into the program.
I didn't see Mike as a defender whatsoever. He's made such a, you know, a great transition throughout the course of this year in terms of taking pride in defense and you know, he's probably taken as many charges as anybody I've seen in college basketball this year. And it's hard to take charges in modern day college basketball. The rule changes. So on ball charges are a thing of the past. But if you can beat people to the spot and take that contact and he's got a knack for it. And not only that, his defensive rebounding has been as good as anybody from a perimeter standpoint that we have on the team. So he's starting to take a lot of pride in that and we certainly emphasize that film and reinforce those things because that's been some. He's been some part of some critical moments in terms of taking those charges and getting the ball back in our hands, no question.
[00:14:04] Speaker A: So a lot of the Shockers players, coaches have pointed to conversations after the loss at Florida Atlantic on January 15th. That was a turning point. The Shockers were 10, 8, 2, 3 in the American after that game. And then there were some tough conversations about people's roles and contributions and those kind of things. What's your perspective on what changed after that game for the Shockers?
[00:14:27] Speaker B: Yeah, it was a humbling moment. You know, you go on the road and the way they beat us, KG only ended up getting five shots. And we understand how important he is to the success of our program and his shot making ability. But it was a humbling experience walking in that gym and they had a lot more juice than us, they rebounded better than us. And so we had to really go back to the drawing board and realize, okay, what do we do well and what does each person, you know, whether one or two things and what can they bring to the program that's going to take us to the next level? Who's going to take those things and that feedback loop that we give those players, who's going to take that and say, let me play to my strengths and avoid my weaknesses. And the more we can play to our strengths and avoid our weaknesses and the better off we're all going to be collectively.
[00:15:24] Speaker A: So you would have been in a lot of postseason play over your time as a coach. You reached this point in season.
You know, they've been playing basketball for a long time now. What's the right balance as far as giving them rest, keeping their legs fresh, but also staying sharp? How do you balance those two things with workouts?
[00:15:41] Speaker B: It is hard. We have to really prioritize rest and recovery this time of year. And there's not as many much, you know, you're doing as much scouting as you can, but it's more the film work less of the encore, five on five, you know, drilling stuff live. So you're relying more on your principles than you are some of the, the reps that you're going to get on the floor because it's a risk reward type thing in terms of, you know, as a coach trying to make sure, you know, if you're, if you're juicy juiceless, you're useless. And Coach Mills says that all the time. So we have to make sure we're very mindful of their time, especially on the floor when we're going live. You know, we played Wyoming as a third game in four days and Wyoming, you know, they've been off since Wednesday, the prior week. So I know they had to travel here. But when we're going on three games in four days, you got to be very mindful of how you prepare your guys and how you do it. And it's more mental than it is physical.
[00:16:44] Speaker A: So what have you learned about coach Paul Mills and what has made him successful during Your first year on the coaching staff, he's relentless.
[00:16:51] Speaker B: He's relentless in terms of his preparation.
He's gonna leave no stone unturned, and he's gonna continue each and every day. He wakes up with such enthusiasm for life and the game of basketball, and I don't think he does. I don't think he has any hobbies, and it's all basketball. And he pours into our guys and he pours into our staff. And he's such a good leader from.
From that aspect. You know, you always look to your leader and you see the way he leads and the way he handles himself and the way he doesn't get. He doesn't get too down, he doesn't get too up, you know, so. You know, he's so steady, and I love that about him, and I love working for him because of the person he is and the coach he. And I've learned a lot from him, and I've been around some really good coaches over the years. I've worked for a Hall of Fame coach, and he's as good as anybody I've worked for. And, you know, still going through the names, I've worked with Frank Martin, I've worked with Brad Underwood, Bob Huggins, Craig Smith, and, you know, go on and on and on. And so he's really good at what he does. And Wichita is really, really fortunate to have a man so committed to the Shocker basketball.
[00:18:04] Speaker A: He told us he didn't know who was in the Super Bowl. Do we believe him? Was he sneaking around? Was he in a Super bowl pool that we didn't know about?
[00:18:10] Speaker B: I honestly wouldn't doubt if he didn't know, to be honest with you. So he gets locked in, and he's as far away from ADHD as I've ever seen. You know, when he gets locked in, it's.
He's got blinders on. It's. Everything's about the success of our program, and it's so admirable.
[00:18:27] Speaker A: So it might be instructive to go back to October 1st. You know, the Shockers lost their top nine scores from last season, so this was really a total overhaul. And maybe we've forgotten how challenging that might be. How did this team come together so quickly?
[00:18:43] Speaker B: That's a hard one to answer. You know, I think more so than anything, it's credit to the staff. You know, I didn't have. I came in and the roster was already completed, and credit to the staff and Coach Mills and picking the right character of guys to represent the program and especially in this day and age, in terms of going out, and you go out and look at some of these players that you could bring into the program, and a lot of coaches will get excited about the shiny toy out there averaging this, that and the other. And maybe he's not a great fit to the program. Maybe he's not a great fit to the system that we got going on. Maybe his character doesn't fit. And I think more so than anything, Coach Mills recruits character before he recruits the talent on the floor.
And that's critical to teams that are going to gel.
If you got guys out there, you know, whether they're talented and they can put up, you know, 20 points a game, but they're a cancer in the locker room, it's going to be a hard year on you. And from day one when he got here, I could tell that he'd done a masterful job of just bringing high character guys in here that love the game. And that's the second one. Just guys that love to be around the game because, you know, you're in this business long enough, you really realize if you love the game, the game's gonna love you back, and it's very important.
[00:20:04] Speaker A: He's spoken about that a lot. Definitely. What's your favorite March Madness memory?
[00:20:10] Speaker B: I would say, you know, it's pretty easy for me. 2010, we beat Kentucky and the Carrier Dome to go to the Final Four, and nobody had us winning that game. You know, I think Kentucky had five, six NBA draft picks on that. That team. And you go back and all the years kind of run together, but that one obviously sticks out. You know, making that run to the Final Four is always such a. Such a high moment. And, you know, we talked about this last week. You know, we missed on going the NCAA Tournament, and it still. It still stings. You know, we had a chance to win the championship and down in Birmingham, but we fell short. And that was our goal, in every sense of the word, all year, is making an NCAA tournament. And so, you know, that day when we came back, you know, we got to turn around and play on Tuesday and Monday.
It's a hangover. You just feel like, okay, we didn't meet our goal and we have to turn around and okay, we get an opportunity to play more basketball. Now, what you do with opportunity in life is up to you. And we continue to. You know, even myself, I drew on some of my experiences. Coach Mills drew on some of his experiences. I've lost in the first round the NCAA tournament a couple of times as A really good seed as a four seed before.
But I've also seen teams that, the year before we got to West Virginia in, in 2007, they went to the NIT.
They won that NIT, and that same group stuck together. And I wasn't a part of the NIT championship, but Coach Huggins and myself and our staff came in.
That whole group was so connected. And they didn't transfer out, they stayed together. And that first year at West Virginia, that group took us to the Sweet 16.
That second year, that third year, we lost in the first round. The fourth year, we're in the Final Four. And I tried to tell these guys and that freshman on the NIT championship team was Joe Missoula. And I showed him pictures of Joe Missoula with his. With his senior teammates just hugging after they, you know, won the NIT championship. Then I'm showing them, you know, some of those. The cumulative effect of those guys staying together and being a part of something special, because there's so many stories about these teams that do well and whether it be the crown, like you look at Nebraska last year in a crown, they go ahead and win that, and then they start the season this year 22 and 0. And so it's the cumulative effect of staying together, building something special. And what really stinks about college basketball right now is the, you know, everybody's chasing dollars and nil, and they're not really chasing, you know, what those teams and that chemistry and the love of the game and the brotherhood of. Of college basketball that we used to have 10, 15 years ago. And I hope we can bring this team back and have every piece of it, you know, still intact. And what's those guys that aren't graduating, obviously we'll have to bring in some pieces to replace them, but we got a good core group and I hope we can retain them all.
[00:23:23] Speaker A: So that 2010 West Virginia team, that would have been Kevin Pittsnoggle team, is that correct?
[00:23:28] Speaker B: Kevin Pittsnoggle was prior to that, 2007. So Pittsnoggle was not on the. It would have been the 2007 NIT championship. We came in in 2007. 08 season, went to the Sweet 16, but Pittsnauggles before that. But he did take them to, I believe, the Elite Eight a couple years prior to that. I think he was in 2006.
[00:23:51] Speaker A: So Joe Missoula, now the coach of the Boston Celtics. Could you tell he was going to be a coach at that, as a college athlete?
[00:23:57] Speaker B: Well, no, absolutely not. You know, he is. And I tell a lot of the guys that, you know, I tell stories about Joe a lot.
The one thing Joe had, he was not very talented as a basketball player, but he wouldn't. He's probably one of the toughest guys I've ever, ever been around in terms of how much they competed. He competed at a high, high level, and his physicality for the game was at a high level. And it's the ultimate equalizer. You know, there's talent out there, then there's, then there's physicality and toughness, and it's the ultimate equalizer. And he had every bit of those intangibles.
[00:24:32] Speaker A: Well, he's doing a fabulous job as Celtics coach. The Shockers, they are advancing in the nit. They defeated Wyoming on Tuesday night at Kocarina. They will play at Oklahoma State.
Time to be determined on Sunday. Josh Eilert, thank you very much for your time.
[00:24:46] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:25:02] Speaker A: Hi, this is Rick Muuma, president of Wichita State University.
[00:25:05] Speaker B: Check out the latest episode of the Forward Together podcast.
[00:25:08] Speaker A: Each episode I sit down with different
[00:25:10] Speaker B: guests from Shocker Nation to celebrate the
[00:25:13] Speaker A: vision and mission of Wichita State University.
Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
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[email protected] Peter Willis shot, fake, looks to drive it. Gives it the corner to McDuffie. 3 by Marcus Good again.
That ball barely moved the net by 10 and Colvin Sampson.
