[00:00:14] Speaker A: Hello. Welcome to the Roundhouse Podcast with Paul Sullentrop of Wichita State University Strategic Communications. Thanks very much for listening. We appreciate your time. Our guests today are Wichita State junior center Will Berg and assistant coach East Lehman. They are joining us to talk about the Shockers playing meaningful basketball in March. Will is from Stockholm, Sweden. He averages 8.8 points, 8.3 rebounds and 1.4 blocks a game.
Ian is in his third year at Wichita State. He came here with Paul Mills from Oral Roberts University. The Shockers are 20 and 10, 12 and 5 in the American and in second place, Wichita State plays Florida Atlantic 3pm Saturday. A win locks in the Shockers as the number two seed in the conference tournament and that comes with a bye into the semifinals. We should mention South Florida has two games remaining. They would have to lose both. If they do, then the Shockers would tie for the conference title.
Okay, WSU has won five in a row. Seven and eight will take us through the last five weeks. Why is this team playing such good basketball?
[00:01:22] Speaker B: Most of the guys just totally bought in.
I feel like that last piece of the puzzle kind of clicked and we've just been playing together and playing for each other. Most importantly, we have done that throughout the season. But I feel like the last five games that's just something that's been more emphasized and focused on.
[00:01:44] Speaker A: Ian, what have you seen in the coaches meetings in the video, what have you seen that's been helpful for this team to get on a roll?
[00:01:50] Speaker C: Yeah, it's pretty similar. Everyone playing to their streng. You know, you don't have anyone that's trying to prove themselves. We all know what everyone's strengths are. So in March and February you're not, you're still trying to get better, but you're not trying to. If you're not a great three point shooter, you're not figuring out how do I prove that I can make five threes a game.
You more. Alright, let's play to our strength. So all of our guys have bought into what do I do best? That's what I'm going to do to help the team, whether it's offensively or defensively. So within the coaches meetings it's that. But then the players understand that too, that what can I do really well to help this team? That's what I'm going to do versus trying to prove to my teammates, prove to my coaches that I can do other things. It's what can I help with this game? And all right, let me execute that and do that.
[00:02:36] Speaker A: So will you would have experience in the NCAA tournament from your time at Purdue. Is it helpful for that shared purpose, that common unity when you reach late February and boy, there's a lot of goals out there as far as post season play, does that make that whole process easier to buy into?
[00:02:52] Speaker B: For sure.
It's at the end of the year, everybody's tired, everybody's worn out, and it's very important that you have people to fall back on. Like Ian says, when everybody's buying into their strength, there's this common confidence, like shared confidence within the team that kind of develops. And like I said, the past five games, that's been something that's been built upon and something that's going to help us through the later stages of the season that we're going through right now.
[00:03:28] Speaker A: So there's a rough stretch in early January. WSU lost three of four since then, Wichita State's 10 and 2. Ian was anything said, anything emphasized that that kind of turned things in a better direction.
[00:03:40] Speaker C: Yeah, I think we just, I mean, we all came together and made sure we were all on the same page of what, what does a successful season look like? And, and everyone said what they want to do. You know, we want to go to the inspo tournament, we want to win in the N split tournament, we want to play far into March. And then just like, all right, here's what we need from the players. Players, what do you need from us? And it's just getting on the same page. Like every team goes through rough patches. Even the undefeated teams, they went through rough patches.
Everything isn't always, you know, rainbows and butterflies.
So I mean, sometimes your rough patches, you still can come out with wins and that sometimes makes it easier, but can hide an issue. Sometimes they come up with losses. And after those losses, we could really reflect. And there's no all right when you lose. You can't be like, well, it's all right when you lose. That's the goal is to win. When you win, you can sometimes mask your issues. So we addressed it head on. The guys addressed it head on. They told us what we got to do better and they kind of took accountability for, here's how we have a successful season and that's really cool is when the players take accountability and they're like, here's what I can do to help us. Here's what you can do to help us. And they don't worry about, well, I'm worried if I tell Will what he can do better, that Will's going to be mad at me. Now, there was none of that. It was all right. We're a collective unit from our best players, from Coach Mills all the way down to our managers. We got to find a way for all of us to get better. And if we can all get better, the team's going to get better.
[00:05:05] Speaker A: So Wichita State last year did something similar. There was a stretch, I think they won five or six in a row. Right. Last year, in February, I did a story about that, and everybody said Paul Mills kind of consistency, levelness was really helpful. Will, has that been the case again this year? Is it helpful to have a head coach who is just kind of all about doing the work and not too many highs and lows?
[00:05:28] Speaker B: Absolutely. That security, you know what you're going to get in practice every day, you know what to expect from him during the games. And it makes it easier for me as a player and I think for everybody to just kind of buy into that like that strive for consistency and that strive to be able to give what's needed every day.
And I feel like when we had that meeting in January, we all talked.
Like you said, it was kind of like a turning point.
But I also think it was good that we went through that adversity, because otherwise, like Ian said, we had some issues at that point that were being masked by wins. We had some wins that were close, we had some losses that were close. But in the close wins, there were issues that might have been overlooked by the players. I know the coaching staff is always on top of that stuff, but as a player, it can sometimes be hard to reflect on the bad things you do during a game if you end up winning the game.
Whereas that rough patch made. I think a lot of us kind of wake up and see exactly what needed to be done to level up and push the team to the next step.
[00:06:46] Speaker A: What was the message for Will Berg after that meeting? What did you walk out of there thinking, I need to do differently?
[00:06:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I remember especially finishing around the room or something that was brought up.
And that's another thing that's great about this team.
Like you said, from coaching, like Ian said, from coaching staff to managers to players, you can hold each other accountable.
If I know someone is not doing what they're supposed to, I can tell them that without any hard feelings.
And during that meeting, a lot of constructive criticism was thrown out, and every single guy on the team took it as something good and something to actually work on. For me, it was obviously finishing around the rim. My other patch drive wasn't as efficient as I Should have been.
But also just being a physical presence, both the offensively and offensively, which I feel like me and Manny have both been providing as of late.
[00:07:51] Speaker A: Definitely, Definitely. Want to talk about that? Yes.
[00:07:53] Speaker C: I think to go with that, like Will talked about, like we said, you know, he. I mean, I think he kind of addressed like, I need to be a better finisher. And one thing we challenged with, like, Emmanuel and Noah was like, all right, give. You guys need to give each other tougher. Looks like there can't be a buddy system in place where. All right, well, I'll let you make this layup. You let me make it so we look good. And I think. No, I think Will could attest Noah's like, the baddest dude in practice at times where it's like. Sometimes I think Will's like, can we just get to the game? Yeah, can we get to the game so Noah's not fouling me every possession? And so I think that's helped, too, is like, it's not just, Will, you got to be better at finishing or it's like, noah, how do you help Will Joy, how do you help Will P. How do you help Will Ty? How do you help these guys? And so it wasn't just, like, our guys, you gotta be better. How do our red shirts help everyone get better, too? So it really was a team effort. Not just, like, will, this is on you. You gotta figure it out. It was everybody that kind of came together and thought of how they could help each person for sure.
[00:08:51] Speaker B: And I have to shout out the scout team.
I remember, like Ian said, they put a lot of criticism to them making our. They wanted the scout team to, like you said, make our practices nightmares or whatever. And looking back at Purdue, I was a part of the scout team a lot. And I think both for me, my development, but also the people I was going up against. I think you benefit so much from having people on the team who might not play as much, but who are working, working their butts off in practice and doing whatever they can. Kind of like, you kind of have to go in with a mindset that practices a game, too. You have to go in there and do all the stuff you do in a game to get the good habits formed and so forth. And I think scout team has absolutely helped us do the right things these past months. They've stepped up their game for sure.
[00:09:49] Speaker A: Emmanuel Okorafor, you mentioned part of the center combination with Will. It's been really effective this season. And then Noah Hill, freshman, who is immensely entertaining to watch in practice. I think that's an accurate description. He is bouncy and aggressive and athletic and it will be fun to watch him over the arc of his career. One of the highlights of this season would be the double overtime game at ECU on February 18th. I think fans will remember that for a long time. So Kenyon Giles makes a four point play in the final 12 seconds to send it to overtime. Then he makes another jump shot after a turnover to send it to a second OT and the Shockers win 92, 89. So two improbable plays to get the Shockers that win. Where were you when Kenyon made those shots? And what was going through your mind will give us your view of what was going on in those hectic moments.
[00:10:38] Speaker B: I was on the court and it was that first one, I remember it was most crazy shot. There were pump fake, step fake through like a step through jump shot. I was like, every time KG shoots it, you're expecting it to go in. But that type of look, it's. It was like, damn, all right, maybe time crunch. And then you see it go in as well and you're like, wow, all right.
Then you kind of have to remind yourself like, oh yeah, it's kg.
So not that it becomes less impressive, but it's.
You kind of expect it with him at this point.
His ability to get buckets and having the clutch, I think that was also showcased recently in the Memphis game.
And yeah, every game almost.
[00:11:31] Speaker A: And in the Memphis game, Shockers were up one point. He made a, made a three pointer to basically, basically end that game. Ian, what's your memory of those crazy moments at East Carolina?
[00:11:40] Speaker C: So, so the regulation one. The first thing that comes to mind is like from the coaching perspective, you're trying to turn a two possession game to a one possession game.
So you take it from four. We ran a sideline OB for three and we work on special situations like that a lot. So you're like, all right, KG's going to make it. Then it's a one point game. We have to foul now where it's one possession regardless if they hit one, two or zero free throws. So that was kind of like the map game that you go through on the bench. And then KG of course is one of the few people that just was like, I'll make it a four point play for you and make it a little bit easier. And then the second one, I think the unsung hero is Noah. We just, I mean we just talked about Noah, but Noah comes in and A couple games. And like, we're like, Noah, your job is to get a deflection. And it's like probability, I think for the regulation rust to win was like 5%. And over time the probability for us to win was 8%. So like two pretty, like, it's like, all right, Noah, we need you. And like, Noah gets a deflection, Mike is the first on the floor, dies for a loose ball. And like those two things happen, which allows KG to get the ball and shoot like a double clutch jumper. But it's like, those don't happen if Noah, like we said, if Noah instead is pouting and not focused on the game because I haven't played yet, he's not active. If Mike is like mad about something and doesn't dive two arms first, you know, completely surrendering, then the ball doesn't roll to them. Maybe it's a jump ball. And so it's like, those are the things I remember with the second one is like, KG hit the shot. KG's phenomenal. But without Noah, without everyone else denying the ball, without Noah getting deflective, being active on the ball, without Mike diving for the loose ball and like completely just like going all out, not bracing himself, which you talk about, then the ball doesn't end up in KG's hands and we probably take an L. So it's just like, that's the cool part is like, especially you go back and see just like, man, kg, KG deserves recognition, but there's so many people. And that was the first thing I think, when we got back because we're like Noah and like, you would have thought Noah hit the game winner with the way he was hyped up and everyone was hyped up for Noah because he was in for 4 seconds, 5 seconds, and like inside that was the biggest play that allowed us to be in this situation. So that was a really cool thing that I, like, look back on is like the. The KG shots are awesome and deserve all the recognition, but it's everyone else that played a role into making that happen.
[00:13:53] Speaker A: And Noah Hill was inserted specifically to guard the inbound passer because of his wingspan and his athleticism.
[00:14:00] Speaker B: Yeah, you can tie that back to the past month, like him being locked in. And it's not like Ian says, not pouting, like, he doesn't pout.
He works hard in practice every day. And I feel like him being. Having that mental stability to always go in and try to become a little bit better every day, then carry on into the game where you can go in and still be not play played 4 seconds but like Ian said, arguably made one of the biggest plays, the biggest play in four seconds and being setting the whole whole game and being cold and being able to still be locked in mentally as yeah great attest to both him and all the work he's put in the past.
[00:14:50] Speaker A: Coaches love to talk about being ready. You never know when your name is going to get called and that would be a great, great example of that.
[00:15:11] Speaker C: Hi, this is Rick Muma, President of Wichita State University.
Check out the latest episode of the Forward Together podcast. Each episode I sit down with different guests from Shocker Nation to celebrate the vision and mission of Wichita State University.
Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:15:43] Speaker A: So last week Paul Mills was talking about Kenyon Giles, talking about his confidence not just as a shooter but also how his confidence helps helps the rest of the team kind of flows through to other people on the team. Will describe Kenyon Giles personality and why it's important to have someone like that on your roster.
[00:16:00] Speaker B: Yeah, having a leader that's both confident and in himself but also in the team obviously helps everybody to be more confident in themselves.
But I've met a lot of players through my years and both played against a lot of good players and had a lot of good players on my team. And often you see the confident players kind of having a little bit of arrogant attitude or maybe putting themselves above other players. But I feel like that's not the case with KG at all.
The way he's humble and grounded just makes it easier for everybody else to not only relate to him, but the team bonding aspect of it levels up through his confidence and him being able to express confidence in himself without putting down others on the team is, yeah, one of the, one of many amazing traits he has.
[00:17:00] Speaker A: He's been fun to watch. No doubt. Karon Boyd's consistency and his physical play also seems essential for this team. Will describe Karon's role on the on the on the team.
[00:17:12] Speaker B: Yeah, KB is like you say, it's not often you don't see him have a great defensive game.
Scott called off Knight for a reason.
He is a pest. He rebounds the ball, he locks down the opposing team's best player and likewise there like you can almost say that regarding the whole team, nobody is like arrogant or whatever, which is kind of rare in the color team these days. I feel like everybody here is like, yeah, a team. It's like a family. And I think that's a lot of the a lot of our success can be attributed to that and I think that starts at the top with kg with kb, they set the example for the younger guys and for all the other guys as well.
And being able to have a key player like KB who brings it on the defensive end and the offensive end every single night while also being a humble and down to earth guy, it just does wonders for the team and the chemistry.
[00:18:19] Speaker A: Will what's a gortat screen and why do they seem to be so important?
[00:18:24] Speaker B: It's when the big man rolls to the basket and then kind of screens his own man.
A lot of teams playing drop coverage and in drop coverage the guard relies on the big man a lot to kind of slow down the ball handler.
And if the other big screens their own man, the big that's supposed to help the on ball defender leaves an open lane for the ball handler to either get an open layup or gnash dribble through the paint and create a domino effect which opens up other looks
[00:19:04] Speaker A: A name for Marcienne Git Gortot NBA player played for the I think people would know him mostly with the Wizards. Played for the Suns for a while.
It's become a talking point here recently.
So will you've scored 10 or more points in five of the past six games. You've had back to back double doubles, made 12 of 18 shots, 12 straight free throws in your past four games. So these all seem to be signs of a player who is peaking at the right time.
How do you describe your play over the last two weeks?
[00:19:36] Speaker B: I would say it's been. I feel like the confidence has been building.
Obviously I haven't really had this role before in a long time, so it's been taking its time to kind of adjust to it and get used to it. But I feel like so the past few weeks it's kind of not clicked, but it's become more like normal normal in the way I see myself play, kind of don't hesitate and so forth. I know like I said, like I said earlier, I bought into what type of player I am, what's needed from me for the team to succeed. And I think that's just reflecting in the box scores of the games.
[00:20:24] Speaker A: Describe the I guess it's got to be a physical and a mental adjustment to Now I'm playing 25 minutes a game and I come out and then well, I've got to go back in. And not only do I have to go back in, but this team really needs me to play well to be successful. Describe just adjusting to all those factors.
[00:20:41] Speaker B: Yeah, it's Big change, but I'm very grateful for it.
And it's been some hiccups or some periods of time where I needed to learn, and coaching staff has been phenomenal on that part and helping me navigate through that. And I work out with Dushan a lot and watch film with him.
And just overall, just having the confidence from the coaching staff helps help me a lot since I feel like that's one of the areas for my game where that was holding me back in the past and even in this past season at some points.
[00:21:23] Speaker A: Ian, what's the observation of the coaching staff about Will's plays recently?
[00:21:28] Speaker C: We want to play through Will, but the hard part is sometimes bigs are hard to play through because they get the ball from somebody else. Where if you want to play through a guard, just have him bring the ball up the floor.
So you have to rely on a lot of things. And what Will does is like, I think, like, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but against Tulsa, he drew so many fouls. So it's like Will wasn't able to get all these shots, but all of their five men had three, like, three fouls with 15 minutes left in the game. And so Will was able to just, like, do his role. And it's like, I don't think he gets caught up. And it's like, well, I haven't got the ball.
He knows, all right, I drawn seven fouls. Like, I'm helping this team out. So we try to play it through Will and. But I think Will understands not everything's going to go to plan. So sometimes Will, we'll have a game where he takes three shots and they're all off offensive rebounds. And instead of him coming in the locker room and saying, like, you guys got them with the ball. I think he. He kind of reflects, like, how can
[00:22:28] Speaker A: I get the ball better?
[00:22:29] Speaker C: What can I do better? What can we. You know, and there's. He talked about with kg. KG is always talking with players. Will's always talking with players.
And it's easy for us to say what should happen as coaches, but they're the ones playing. So if they can communicate the issues and how to work through it, that I think is the more important thing. And I think that's what this team does well, whether it's Mike or Dre or kg, you know, talking to our bigs or kb, how can they help each other? So we try to play through the post, but sometimes it's easier said than done. Whether it's positioning or guards feeling Comfortable getting in. But. But Will, I think every game, whether he gets a bunch of shots or, you know, draws a bunch of fouls or creates driving lanes for our guards, I think he just accepts what it is and do what he can to help us. So he's not going to get caught up in. Well, I only shot three times and it was because you guys missed threes and I got the rebound and put back.
It's more bigger picture focused, which is what you want.
[00:23:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I've played.
I feel not old. There's some older guys in college than me, but this is my fourth year and at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is winning. And whatever I can do to help us win is whatever I'm gonna focus on doing. If that's rebounding the ball, I'm gonna focus on doing that. If that's screening and getting KG open, locked in on that. At the end of the day, it's nice to score points, but we already have so many great options on our team. That doesn't have to be my focus every single time. Being a presence on the defensive end and just filling whatever holes the team needs that night.
[00:24:13] Speaker A: Wilburg's offensive rebounding rate is outstanding. He grabs 17.1% of available offensive rebounds. That ranks 10th of nationally and Ken Pomeroy's stats. So will a shot goes up. Take us through your process. What are you thinking? What are you looking for? What are you doing to go chase down that basketball?
[00:24:33] Speaker B: Yeah, it really starts before that.
It's all about positioning, being on the opposite side of the basket. I know coach Josh would like that. But we drill that every single day. Being opposite of where the shot is coming from. And then playing the numbers game, I kind of.
I'm seven two.
I'm not the most athletic guy. I think people downplay my athleticism a little bit though.
But I would consider myself very strong. So I tend to do most of the work even before the ball even hits the rim or the ball. Ball even leaves the hands of the shooter, kind of sealing them in underneath the basket so I don't even have to jump to get the ball.
[00:25:24] Speaker A: That's.
[00:25:25] Speaker B: And if that's no jumping involved, there's less work for me.
[00:25:29] Speaker C: That's why you don't jump.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:31] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:25:33] Speaker A: So the ball. The most rebounds come off the opposite side from where it's shot. That's something the coaches would tell you that. That's a. That's a real thing.
[00:25:40] Speaker B: That's a statistical thing, especially on three pointers.
There are also Long shots go long opposite. So if you can seal your guy closer to the basket, kind of lull them into the false sense of security that they're close to the basket so they're going to get the ball. But that's not the real story since long shots go long.
And when you have all that space ball, even if you don't get it, you might often get it on the first or second bounce after that.
[00:26:13] Speaker A: I think maybe it was early in the conference season, but there was a point where I remember watching Wichita State, Kenyon Giles or Michael Gray Jr. Taking a shot, and then it felt like three or four guys just ran right to Will Burg and said, we're not letting you get this offensive rebound that the scouting report before the game it started with. Shot goes up, you find number 44 and hit him as hard as you can. When did you start noticing that teams were really targeting you to keep you off the offensive boards?
[00:26:42] Speaker B: Very fast.
Very fast. But it's part of the game. Everybody has their strengths. And just like people aren't gonna let KG shoot open threes. I'm gonna have two or three guys on me when I try to go overboard, which is. I don't mind that that might lead to games where I don't get any overboards. But that means kb, Dylan, tj, even Mike are able to go in there and fetch them and then have open layups because I crave so much attention on those.
It's like a blessing and a curse. It's great for the team. Low bit annoying for myself, but like I said at the end, it doesn't really matter as long, as long as it results in a win. And yeah, like I said, it happened pretty early. I feel like being 7:2, you already require a lot of attention on the rebounding end of the game. But I have a knack for. And I feel like I've had that the whole year for knowing or playing the numbers game in the correct way.
So I was already in the preseason. In the preseason. Not the preseason, but like the outer conference games, you started to notice that they started sending the four man as well to hit me.
[00:28:05] Speaker A: And it seems like I've noticed you get knocked to the floor a lot. I've seen your jersey pulled.
How do you avoid getting frustrated with that amount of physical attention? And that's just part of playing basketball, especially it's part of being a big man. But it really seems to stand out the way you sometimes get bounced around in there.
[00:28:23] Speaker B: Yeah, it's very physical and you kind of have to keep a level mind ahead about it.
I had a game earlier in the year where I kind of let that slip and didn't keep my poise, which sadly affected the team very badly. So it's something that's always on my mind when I'm getting hacked in the paint. Because at the end of the day, most of the bigs in our league have to follow me to not let me get the correct position. Because if I get the correct position, I'm getting the ball or scoring on them.
And I get that the refs can't call every single foul. It's got to be entertaining game as well. So it's kind of. You kind of have to just make. Make do with what's handed to you. Some games, like the Tulsa game, where it's a little bit more outrageous, where they're playing lineman defense on me, I get more foul calls. And other games like Temple, they're a little bit more discreet but slow, still holding and pushing and so forth.
Just got to learn, learn from that and be able to keep my cool better in those situations.
[00:29:39] Speaker A: So I actually did some preparation for this. Usually I just kind of make it up as I'm going along. But I talked to two former Shocker centers. Tom Kosich played here in the 80s and Paul Miller played on that 2006 Valley Championship team that was honored a couple games ago. They both watched the Shockers a lot and they both mentioned how much they've watched you improve over the year. Where do you think you've improved? What are you hoping that people are seeing now that's different from November 1st?
[00:30:08] Speaker B: No, like I said before, confidence. I feel like that's elevated all aspects of my game. It's being more confident in myself and in what I provide, which leads to me being a better finisher on the rim, being a better defender, being a better offensive rebounder.
I feel like my favorite part of the game is playing great centers where I get to have a matchup where they throw the ball a lot and I get to battle them one on one, like Charlotte, like South Florida, like many teams in this league, having that one on one matchup where I'm being challenged to guard someone that's a great player is very fun and something I enjoy and something I haven't always enjoyed.
So I feel like that's a big, big thing that's improving my game is having that pride on defense that my player won't score on me and yeah, that I'll try my best to shut him.
[00:31:15] Speaker A: So Tom Kosich mentioned watching a recent TV broadcast and he was frustrated because he felt the announcer was giving the impression that if Wilburg did something good or something good happened, it was because he was 7 foot 2. But if Wilburg, if nothing, if something bad happened, well, that was Wilbur's fault. You know, you were not given credit for working or talent or skills or anything. It was just kind of good things happen. Well, it would happen to anybody who's 7 foot 2. Is that just kind of life as a. As a big man where you are, you're just kind of, you know, you're tall, therefore you should be good at this sport?
[00:31:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
Every day you hear someone, oh, yeah, if I was 7 2, I do this, I do that, I jump up to the moon and dunk or whatever. It's. I've heard it all.
You kind of. You just can't, can't listen to people. They just don't know.
The people that do know people that actually watch basketball, a lot of people watch basketball and not a lot of people know basketball.
Our coaching staff knows basketball, so. And a lot of coaches know basketball, so the people that really matter knows that it's not just about height. It's not just about being tall or whatever. You gotta actually know what you're doing, actually work in your game and so forth. And that's a good thing with WSU staff is they know when I'm like, relying too much on my height or whatever, or like slacking off or whatever in practice or whatever.
They push me to do the work early. Not only in the games, but in practice. Do the work early in the form of doing the drills. Right.
Yeah. Whatever is being put in front of me. Right.
Even though our short managers might be guarding me in the post, it doesn't mean I should act like guard is guarding me in game. I have to put myself in the situation of me actually having a big man defender on me.
[00:33:18] Speaker A: And yeah, that's exactly, almost exactly word for word what Paul Miller said when I asked him about interviewing a big man. He said that almost every conversation he has with the fan at some point gets around to, well, if I were as tall as you, I'd do this, this and this.
What's something you'd like a fan to understand about what it's like to be in there playing against other people who are also 6 foot 10, 250 pounds?
[00:33:41] Speaker B: Yeah, no, it's physical.
And early in the year too, when I was struggling with finishing with the ball, I hadn't really gotten used to that. Level of physicality for that long. Being in a game for 25 minutes might not sound long, but when you're constantly fighting someone, it gets very tiring very fast. And I think a lot of fans only see the, see the fancy guards between the legs, step back threes. But if you look down in the pose, I've spent the last 20 seconds basically wrestling another big man for position.
Might not even get the ball in, but then I'm wrestling for position for a rebound. So it's like they, I think a lot of fans look over the fact that it's two different types of games and I don't think a lot of fans experience the big man game because their average height or whatever. So when they, they go and play or when they play when they were kids or whatever they experienced between the legs, step back threes and not the football.
Fighting down low underneath the basket.
[00:34:57] Speaker A: Kind of like the difference between a quarterback and an offensive lineman.
[00:35:00] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:35:01] Speaker A: All right, well, thanks to Tom Kosich and Paul Miller giving us a little big man perspective, Ian. So from a coach's perspective, you've got Wilburg, you've got Emmanuel Okorafor. Both are playing more minutes than they had previously in college. What's the coaching staff looking for? Monitoring. As far as, hey, he's getting a little fatigued. We don't want him to pick up a silly foul. How are you watching those guys to know when to put them in and out?
[00:35:25] Speaker C: I think there's a certain level of trust, but we understand Will talked about the refs you can't always control.
They're not going to call every foul. But we don't want to put our guys in a situation where, you know, if Will has three fouls early in the second half, we want to put e man in and let Eman play. But when they're fresh, they're better. I mean, like Will said, you may think playing 25 minutes isn't a ton, but I'd be willing to bet 99% of the people can't play 4 minutes, much less 25 minutes. And fighting a 6 foot 10 dude one way or higher post ups every possession or playing in transition or they're trying to post up or he's brought up in ball screens.
So I think we trust both of them. But we understand like when they're fresh, they're at their best. So it's kind of like a back and forth system of Will's tired. Let's get Eman in. Eman picked up a foul. Let's get Will in so he doesn't pick up another one.
They have this matchup which we like because Eman's a little bit quicker. Let's get Eman in. We can be way more physical than with Will, so let's get Will in. So there's, I mean, we trust them and there's a little give and take, but there's understanding of their strengths and weaknesses. But we like our front court versus anybody. So it's just like getting them in, keeping them fresh, making sure they play hard. And like Josh talks about, like, if they don't crash hard, like, that's immediately Josh goes to coach Mills and he's like, will's not crashing, get e man in. Or Eman's not crashing get Will. And so like these guys crash like they're. He talked about, like, they have certain rules that Josh put in. Like they're demanded, you know, they perform and they do it. But like, the standard is the standard. And so when it slips a little bit, it's like, all right, we'll get somebody else in who's going to perform to the standard and let you get a rest while you do it. But I think part of that is even defensively too, like, I think they've learned a lot. You know, we see a lot of different actions and teams scout just like we scout. So like, whatever we prepare for, they may find another advantage that they have. So those two have really, I think on the fly, learned to adjust to different, different schemes defensively adjust in the game. And I think early it was hard for Will to like, trust in himself that he knows how to adjust in the game. And now I think Will makes adjustments and talks to the staff and says, they're doing this. I'm going to do this. We can all get on the same page just like, alright, let the guards know. So he can let the guards know, hey, here's what we're doing when they do this. And so it's not just offensively, but it's defensively too. They work as a unit and I think they, I would think they're the biggest cheerleaders for each other. I don't think when Eman plays more, Will is over there. Like, why wasn't I in? Why didn't I do this? And Will doesn't do that either. And we talked about Noah. When Noah does it, they're the biggest cheerleaders for Noah. So those three are a pretty special, cool, fun unit that understands that just because it's Eman's game, it doesn't mean Anything bad about me, it just means Emmanuel is playing well. And just because Will was playing well, it doesn't mean Eman necessarily did anything bad. It was just Will's game to shine.
Just because Noah was in to break up a press, it doesn't mean we're like, Will, you can never press. You can't ever get a deflection. It's just like Noah's time to shine. So I think they all work together. They all understand that, like, they all can't play 40 minutes. And I don't even know if the idea of playing 40 minutes is, like, what makes Will excited to fight like that for that long. But we know that when Will gets tired or Noah gets tired or Eman gets tired, we can throw in the next one and wear out the other team. Because I don't think most teams want to play two centers consistently. They like to play their one guy that they trust more than their others.
[00:38:58] Speaker A: And Josh Eilert, who you mentioned, one of the Wichita State assistant coaches, does a lot of work with the big men.
Will. We've seen growing crowds over the last two games as the Shockers have gotten rolling. Seems like Saturday there will be another big crowd at Koch Arena. How does that arena feel different when you come out of that tunnel and there's 8,9000 people there?
[00:39:19] Speaker B: It's awesome.
It's an amazing feeling.
You don't need to get the second win because it's almost like you have a sixth player on the floor.
The energy boost, yeah, it's undescribable when you have the whole arena rocking and you know the whole arena is rooting for you.
It's much more easier to lock in and have faith in yourself and your teammates because you have 9,000, 10,000 people around you that are cheering for you.
So it's. Yeah, it's indescribable what they do for us.
But we also have that security within our team that we don't need anybody cheer for us to be successful, even though we have that mentality.
The crowds we've had these past few weeks have been amazing. It's been very nice to see the Wichertons come out and support us and help us win the games.
I remember early on the Memphis game, we whooped them. I feel like a lot of that was due to the fans really chirping us and getting us going and kind of turning us on and lighting that fire under us to beat our opponents.
Obviously, it's hard for teams to come in and play away, and it's even harder for them to come play away when there's a really good crowd that's screaming at them every time they're trying to call a play or scream at them when they're defending, or even more so when they're shooting free throws or whatever they're doing.
It's hard to be comfortable when we have the support we've had the past few weeks.
[00:41:10] Speaker A: Wichita State plays Florida Atlantic 3pm Saturday at Koch Arena. The Shockers are trying to lock up at least the second seed in the American Conference tournament. That game is also on ESPN and you Will Berg, Ian Lehman, thank you very much for your time.
[00:41:25] Speaker B: Thank you, Paul thank you.
[00:41:41] Speaker A: Thank you for listening to the Roundhouse podcast courtesy of Wichita State University Strategic Communications.
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[email protected] Hawkins gonna go to work on Washington and it was dug out of there by Dijon Cortez. Lob to Beverly seven point lead at
[00:42:06] Speaker C: the under eight timeout here at Charleston Marina.
