[00:00:14] Speaker A: Hello.
[00:00:14] Speaker B: Welcome to the Roundhouse Podcast with Paul Sullentrop of Wichita State University Strategic Communication.
Thanks for listening. Our guest is Kenton Paulino. Kenton is in his third season as associate head coach with Wichita State. Men's basketball Kenton played basketball at the University of Texas. He spent two seasons with WSU coach Paul Mills at ORU before coming to Wichita State in 2023.
Wichita State is 21 and 10. They are the second seed in the American Conference Championship. That tournament begins Wednesday in Birmingham. The shockers play at 4pm Saturday. That's on ESPN2 in a semifinal game. Possible opponents, third seeded Tulsa. Tulsa plays on Friday. Also North Texas FAU and Temple. The Shockers as the number two seed. They're two wins away from the title. And these formats reward the regular season records by giving teams buys. That helps out sending the best teams to the NCAA tournament.
Helps out by helping the net ranking in a season in which maybe you've got an at large candidate. Kenton, what do you think of this format that really rewards regular season play by giving teams buys?
[00:01:22] Speaker A: You know, I'm on the flip side. I think I'm with Paul Mills, coach Mills on this one where I think it's important to have everybody in the conference tournament. Now, I don't mind it so much in terms of where we're seated and how it can help us make the NCAA tournament, but I do think student athletes, I think part of what makes March special is when everybody has a chance to make the NCAA tournament. And I think eliminating teams from that opportunity, I do think that's tough.
[00:01:59] Speaker B: And the American 13 team conference takes 10 to the conference championship.
And that's what you're speaking of. So those, the bottom three teams are done. They don't get the opportunity to travel, to play one more game and potentially to advance and keep advancing.
[00:02:15] Speaker A: Right, right.
[00:02:17] Speaker B: The Shockers. So they will play at most two games.
Everybody else will be battling it out for perhaps three games before they get to the semifinal Saturday, facing at most two games. Does that change preparation at all for Wichita State?
[00:02:32] Speaker A: It does because we have a week, you know, our last game we played, what was that? Saturday.
[00:02:38] Speaker B: Right.
[00:02:39] Speaker A: And we don't know who will play until, you know, Thursday night. Well, Friday night. Friday night. So you kind of focus on yourself and try to, you know, try to predict who can possibly win and style of play and what you need to work on. But you have three or four days there where you're just kind of in limbo and you just gotta focus on yourself and what we need to do to get Better.
But we won't know our opponent until Friday night, which is.
It's kind of weird and awkward in a way, but it is what it is.
[00:03:15] Speaker B: Yeah. I guess in a usual bracket you would have a pool, I guess, of two opponents to face immediately, and then that would expand. Here you've got four possible opponents. Does it give you an opportunity to maybe break things down and go back to a lot of individual skill development for a little bit of time this week?
[00:03:34] Speaker A: Yeah, you do quite a bit of both. Individual development.
Guys who's nicked up, they have a chance to get healthy and then you have to focus on.
On your team and keep getting them better without knowing who the opponent is. But you're just focusing on things we need to sharpen up and the fundamentals of the game. And that's what we did yesterday and we'll do today.
[00:03:59] Speaker B: So the Shockers have been very sharp recently. They've won six in a row, eight of 10. Why is this team playing so well?
[00:04:06] Speaker A: I would say just one. It takes time to gel and I think the shift on focusing on just toughness. Just toughness. And when we talk about toughness, that covers a lot of things, a lot of areas, but mostly finishing close games.
And we've had a number of close games. And starting with the ECU game where I don't think I've ever been a part of a game that had that many ups and downs, but leading up to the game, the focus has been toughness and.
And I think that's translated to when it gets tough and it's a one or two possession game late in games, you know, being able to come out with a win.
[00:04:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I think fans will remember that ECU game for a long time. Kenyon Giles had the four point play at the end of regulation to send it to overtime, and then he had a last second jumper at the end of the first overtime.
Take me through where you were, your vision and what was going through your mind when those things happened.
[00:05:06] Speaker A: You know, honestly, in those situations, you know what you need to do, but obviously what the numbers were against us in all those overtimes.
So I would give the guys credit. They stuck with it.
The toughness showed and the resilience showed and we were able to make plays down the stretch. But. But it was a lot of times during that game where you felt like, you know, to pull out a win, something special would need to happen. And it did.
[00:05:39] Speaker B: The Shockers won that game in double overtime at ecu. I think that'll be one of the games People really remember from this season. WSU wrapped up the regular season Saturday with an 8870 win over FAU.
Shockers ended that game with a superb stretch of 11 minutes, 30 seconds. Held the Owls without a field goal during that 289 run.
What did you see during those 11 minutes?
[00:06:04] Speaker A: Just a team that was determined to get stops and close out the game the right way. And I mean, give credit to. I mean, I don't think any of us ever experienced Koch arena the way it was that day.
For the staff that's been here a couple years, it was rocking in there. So, you know, that gave our guys energy. Obviously, that's a home court advantage and, you know, to hold those guys, who's a really good offensive team, to.
What was it, 11 minutes?
[00:06:36] Speaker B: 11 minutes and 30 seconds. I think they were up. FAU was up 6160 with like 1130 to go.
[00:06:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I think the energy from the crowd and what we've done defensively leading up, it just kind of all came together those last 11 minutes to hold a team that's really good offensively to no field goals.
I mean, it was a special day, special in Koch arena. Something that I don't think we've ever experienced until that day. Now, we've heard the stories and I've seen it firsthand years ago when I was at Tulsa and we were coming here, it was an awesome experience for our guys, especially on senior night, to go out. And really, we've all talked about in the recruiting process about the fan base and home court advantage and how this thing is ready to head in the right direction. And I think the last home game, it came to fruition.
[00:07:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I felt bad for the newer people like yourself because as you said, you've heard the stories and people have talked very proudly about Cook arena and you know, for decades and decades, it was a lot of people here. Tough place to play and it hasn't been like that consistently. But you're right, the last few games have. Attendance has been increasing. Saturday was a lot of fun and hopefully it can be like that more often going forward. So Paul Mills, when he talked about that stretch, those final 11 minutes, he didn't talk about the. About the highlights. He explained it that you can really play good basketball by eliminating mistakes. How has this team gotten to the point of eliminating mistakes where you can put on a run like that?
[00:08:17] Speaker A: Yeah, just understanding how important every possession is, possession is.
We've been talking about it since the summer and Coach Mills been talking about how we will be in a lot of One and two possession games.
And I think the experience of this group of going through that in conference play, understanding that you don't know what play or when is going to be important, that all possessions are important. And I think our team realized from start to finish that every single, you can't waste any possessions. And I know it's cliche and every coach talk about it, but when you have 12 new guys who've never been in the league and you have coaches harping on, hey, we're going to be in a lot of one and two possession games, sometimes that could go in one area out the other until you experience it, until you lose a few games where you point out, like go back to the Rice game where at the end we hit a shot that could have went either way, it could have been an and one, Michael Gray's
[00:09:20] Speaker B: shot, three pointer from the corner, if I'm remembering correctly.
[00:09:23] Speaker A: Right, right. But during that game, we showed in film after the game how a bunch of possessions, it didn't have to even come down to that. It could have been a rebound here, a loose ball here, a deflection here.
That could have changed the course of that game.
So I think when you have a team that goes through some tough losses and, you know, through the course of the year, I mean, even going back to when we were in the Bahamas, I mean, we lost a lot of two possession, one possession games.
And, you know, sometimes you have to go through tough times to understand that, you know, if you eliminate some of these mistakes, that it won't even have to come down to a player too late in games.
[00:10:09] Speaker B: So you are absolutely correct. Valuing every possession, really, really important. That would be something that winning basketball teams would do. But you also don't want your guys playing tentatively. You don't want them thinking, you know, if I make. Make this one mistake, I'm done. What's the balance of Coach? How do you get both of those things out of a group?
[00:10:28] Speaker A: You know, it's a fine line, but a lot of it starts in practice.
You know, understanding when we do make mistakes in practice and watching a lot of film and, you know, because coach says it all the time, it's gonna. It's a game of mistakes. Like, you just try to eliminate mistakes, but you don't want to be tight, you know, so we don't expect guys to play perfect. And I think this group understands that. It's just, you gotta eliminate the careless mistakes, you know, the things that you can control because turnovers are part of the game. But it Starts in practice and harping on things in practice and being consistent about the messaging where guys get used to playing in a tense environment but not being tight.
[00:11:17] Speaker B: One last question about fau. Who had the best dunk in that game?
[00:11:21] Speaker A: I think, I think Dylan Batist one, because I know when I was on here early in the year, we talked about Dylan Bati and his potential and his growth and what he needs to do coming from Temple, playing the five and learning a new position. And at the time he wasn't playing as much.
And Dillon gets coached pretty hard and it's because he's, he's inexperienced and he's learning a new position.
So to fast forward his growth, I mean, coach is on them pretty tough.
So for him to have the confidence, trying to be, I don't want to use the word that I want to use, but for him to have the confidence to, you know, do a windmill dunk in that stage of the game, that's why I would give it to Dylan Bati because if he was to miss that, it would have been a major problem.
A major problem.
[00:12:21] Speaker B: I think that thought went through a lot of people's minds. Dillon had the windmill dunk, fast break, there was a steal and he was wide open, did the windmill dunk.
Emmanuel Okorafor had two really nice dunks too, both over a defender, which also got a good reaction from the crowd.
Since February 1st, the Shockers are number 45 nationally in defensive efficiency. According to Bart Torvik's website, they're holding opponents to 31.5% three point shooting. That's 79th nationally and a 30.5% three point rate, which is number 15 nationally, tops in the American.
Explain why limiting teams three point shooting appears to be so fundamental to this defense. And how do you guys do it?
[00:13:05] Speaker A: Well, we harp on taking away the other team's best shooters and we try to stay connected to shooters.
You know, our pick and roll defense has been more tailor made to two guys handling the pick and roll versus five guys shrinking the floor and helping. So we try to stay connected to shooters and take away the three point shot.
And the last, I would say second half of conference play has been geared towards, hey, we have to take away the three and stay in front of the ball and make teams play two on two in pick and roll situations and taking away all their options. We're not taking away all their options. Where they don't have all their options is either the guard's gonna come off, he's gonna have to make a play for himself.
Or he's gonna have to try to hit the roll versus throwing skip passes and one mores.
Where most teams, they want to share the ball. So you, you'll, you've seen where, you know, where point guards not say they have big nights. But no different than Carlisle. He's coming off the point guard for fau, he's coming off screens and he's pulling up making plays for himself. But then we're taking away his assist opportunities and we try to wear guys down in those situations where when it becomes late game, he doesn't have those legs to make those plays. But in the moment it feels as if, man, this kid is going off. But you know, that's the game plan. The game plan is can we make it as tough as possible on him where the other guys are standing around and watching him pretty much try to do it by himself.
[00:15:04] Speaker B: And on Saturday, KEENAN Carlisle had 20, I think in the first half, ended up with 26. It was one of six from the field. We'll talk about Drakel's defense later. But yes, and it looks to me, in essence what you're doing is you want the other team shooting a lot of 13 foot jump shots, which is I think would be one of the least efficient ways to score in basketball. So if you have to give that up by taking away three pointers, then you're confident the math will work out for you at some point.
[00:15:32] Speaker A: Yeah. And then if we have to make adjustments during the course of the game, we're willing to do that, but we feel like the math will work over the course of 40 minutes.
[00:15:46] Speaker B: So players and coaches that I've talked to, they point to conversations after a loss to FAU back on January 15, that was a turning point. After that game, the shockers were 10, 8, 2, 3 in the American. What's your perspective on what changed after that game?
[00:16:00] Speaker A: I think the message has just been more about toughness. That you could win games on off nights if you don't shoot the ball well, but you have to bring the toughness every single possession. You can't let what happens offensively affect your defense.
And I think for the most part the FAU game, you know, we didn't start out the game shooting well and we let that affect our defensive intensity, our rebounding, and we had to flip it quickly Playing against South Florida two days later, you know, and after that game, the, all the talks amongst the coaches and players was just toughness, just, we just harped on toughness the two days leading up to that game.
And at the end of the game. That's what it came down to against South Florida.
Giles gets a still late.
We had to come up with loose balls and come up with some really tough rebounds to close that game in overtime.
So that was the shift in terms of, hey, we could not shoot the ball, have a off night shooting the ball and still come up with a win just by just playing hard and doing the things that we can control.
[00:17:27] Speaker B: So the Shockers lost that game at Florida Atlantic 85, 67 and then came back next game at south Florida, won 86, 85 in overtime.
We talked about Dylan Batee a little bit. He's coming off just a marvelous game against Florida Atlantic. 20 points, 12 rebounds. He made 9 of 10 shots, 3, 3 of 4 foul shots. His emergence in conference play has been a big part of this team's success. How did Dillon get to this point?
[00:17:54] Speaker A: You know, he's been coachable. He's been coachable.
A lot of players in his position when he had some DMPs or wasn't playing much and still getting coached hard every day as if he's playing a lot of players to give him credit, would have shut down, but he stuck with it. He's watched film, he takes criticism really well because he knows where the coaching staff heart is in terms of we're trying to get him better.
And a lot of times when you tell a player your opportunity will come, you go four or five games or 10 games or half the season and that opportunity doesn't.
You could shut down. But he continued to work, continue to be coachable.
And when we've had an injury, a season, a season ending injury to Jarrett Valencia, I mean, he had to step up. He had to step up. But if he, if he wasn't locked in, if he wasn't getting coached hard leading up to that moment, he wouldn't have been ready for that opportunity.
But when the opportunity came, he took advantage of it.
[00:19:09] Speaker B: Yeah, what a great story. He did not play at all in Atlantis in those three games. And then to be able to really pick it up, I guess, starting January, middle of January, and has really been a big factor to this team. He comes from a big basketball family, as I think people know. Do you think that is one of the reasons why he took coaching so well and continued to stick with it?
[00:19:32] Speaker A: Absolutely. You know, when you have family members who've been through it, the growth of, you know, maybe going through a situation where they didn't play and then end up playing, I think he understands that the ebb and flows of A season.
And when you have parents and family members that echoing and saying the right things and he's hearing the right things every day, that can help because easily, if he was in a situation where after the Bahamas all they're talking about is, hey, you need to get out of there. You need to find a new situation.
He could have shut down and not get better and going back to, you know, he was learning a whole new position.
But the talent level has always been there and he still has a lot of room to grow.
The sky's the limit for Dillon and if he continues to be coachable, he can be a guy that could take major, major steps moving forward.
[00:20:32] Speaker B: Definitely a real credit for him to keep working and be ready when his time came. You've spent a lot of time working with forward Karon Boyd, who gives this team so much with his defense, his rebounding, his consistency and his offense has really improved during his time as a shocker.
Describe KB's work to get him to this point.
[00:20:51] Speaker A: Yeah, when we signed kb, knowing his intensity defensively and being around Coach Mills for I don't know how many years now, I think four or five years, we understood because he was so good defensively, it was going to hard to be. It was going to be hard to take him off the floor.
So the focus when he first got here was how can we get him better offensively in terms of shooting the basketball and where you have to honor him when he's on the floor.
So we watched a lot of film on his shot on ways we can get better. Spent a lot of time refining that in the summer to the point where when we started practice during the season, we didn't even talk about his shot anymore. We just wanted it to be natural and something that he did naturally. And to his credit, he continued to work.
So now it's at the point if he's on the floor, you have to respect his ability to make a catch and shoot shot where you can say that in the past, in the past, teams would just back off and say, hey, we'll let him shoot as many times as possible.
We understood for us to be good this year that he would have to be able to make open shots and he has to be respected offensively and to his credit, he's done that.
[00:22:17] Speaker B: So he said that during the recruiting process, you had looked at video and you told him he was holding the ball out in front of his body a little bit too far and that made the shot kind of, I guess, loose and hard to repeat. How much video work, did it take you to be able to isolate that?
[00:22:34] Speaker A: You know, we have this system called Synergy where you can just click a play all his makes, all his misses.
So it was a distinct difference from the shots he made versus the shots he missed. And it was when you watch it back to back to back to back, you could tell, hey, his footwork versus where he holds the ball, how he catches the ball.
And you could see the difference between, hey, this is what you do when you miss shots. This is what you do when you make shots.
And sitting there studying that with him, he wasn't offended.
And that's the biggest thing. Most of the time, players, they come in with their guard up.
He had no guard up.
And that's 90% of the battle. Like, players will say, well, if coach would just let me shoot it, I can make shots. You know, he had none of that.
It was like, man, what do I need to do to consistently make shots? That's the biggest hurdle with a player, especially when you don't have a relationship with them early.
Once they get over that hurdle and they could humble themselves to the point where I need to get better and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get better.
To his credit, he didn't come in with any ego of, if coach would just let me shoot, I can make shots. He knew where he needed to get better, and we just got to work.
[00:24:12] Speaker B: Yes, he said that a lot of people told him he needed to shoot better, but he knew that already. He needed somebody to tell him how he could go about accomplishing that goal. So how do you, like you said, you don't have two years to watch a player progress through high school like maybe you did 10 years ago. How are you able in the recruiting process to determine, hey, this kid is going to take coaching, he really wants to improve
[00:24:39] Speaker A: one. Just through conversation. Through conversation and coaches, coach doesn't really sugarcoat anything in the recruiting process. He pretty much tells you what it is.
And if you're not willing to accept that, then you wouldn't come here because coach is not going to paint a picture, a rosy picture. He's going to tell you what you're good at, where you need to get better, and that's, that's just how he rolls. So you, you can, you can tell the players or the prospects that's willing to listen, or you could tell the ones that kind of. When one coach start saying what you need to get better at, how some prospects, they'll, they'll sit back in their chair and Then cross their arms or they have a frown on their face and you. And then you kind of realize then that and it's going to be a challenge for him to accept. Coaching most of these guys, we didn't get that vibe at all. But definitely not from Karam Boyd.
[00:25:41] Speaker B: How many times did you tell Rick Barnes you needed to shoot the ball more?
[00:25:46] Speaker A: You know what, I came in a pretty good shooter.
He actually fed me confidence, saying, when you're open, you need to shoot the ball.
And that's kind of hard to do when you have lottery picks on the floor and you're trying to pick and choose as point guard when to shoot, when not to shoot.
So early in my career I was passing up shots that I should have taken and my route was a little different. But yeah, that would have been a
[00:26:19] Speaker B: good thing to hear from a coach. Rick Barnes was Kenton's coach at the University of Texas. Dre Kendall, he's given this team lots of energy at guard during his first season was really important to the FAU game. We mentioned the defense on Keenan Carlisle and he did a lot of that in the second half. Describe Dres season and how he got to the point where he was on the court those last 10 minutes, playing great defense and closing out that game, running the team.
[00:26:46] Speaker A: Dre has had an up and down season, but that for your first year, playing for Paul Mills at the point guard spot is probably the hardest position to navigate under Coach Mills. Now, Coach Mills, he has a track record of having really good point guards and guys who can play at that position. But year one is he's really hard on them.
[00:27:08] Speaker B: Andre is a transfer from Barton Community College.
[00:27:10] Speaker A: Yeah, transfer. Juco transfer comes in with a ball of energy, a ton of confidence.
You know, he thinks he's the best guard on the floor.
Every time he touches the floor, he has a lot of moxie and you know, so in practice sometimes you have to ring.
You know, he's just go, go, go all the time.
And with that go, go, go mentality, he in practice, he could have three, four turnovers in a row and get a little rough. You know, Coach Mills, he'll turn red and he'll stay on him.
He's not going to let anything slide at that position.
So it's been a growing experience for Dre and it's been a lot of frustration there. But I think he realized that where he can help the team and what he needs to do on a daily basis for us to get better.
And he also struggles with man, coach is on me for every little thing.
But I tell him, especially as somebody who played point guard and played for a coach that was really hard on point guards, I said, man, once you figure it out, you'll be fine. You'll be able to be who you are. And coach is harder on Dre in practice than he is in games.
And in games, he have to be who he is. You gotta change the game with your. Your defense. And coach always told him, at your size, you have to be a pest defensively. And he's bought into that. And he's changed the games in multiple games this year just by his intensity on the defensive end.
[00:28:53] Speaker B: Yeah, he is a real pest. Does the coaching staff think of it as we hit him with Caron Boyd, who is a little bit bigger or a lot bigger, physical, and then Dre gives him kind of a different look, a change up. Is that an effective defensive strategy?
[00:29:07] Speaker A: Yeah, it's been an effective defensive strategy because what you want to do, we put Karon Boyd on the other team's best player.
And then usually we switch it from Karon Boyd to Mike Gray.
And then we come in with.
We were just talking about Dre. We come in with Dre. We come with Dre. And I think the combination of those three and trying to wear down the other team's best player has helped. And you usually see it in the second half when you have three guys who you're throwing at the other team's best player.
And I think Dre has bought into that because Karon does it with physicality and his size, where Dre does it more so with his speed and his activity more so full court in trying to take a guy out from not letting him catch the ball.
[00:30:06] Speaker B: I'm glad you mentioned Mike Gray because I think he's improved defensively, has kind of had the knack of he's drawing some charges. So you've got three, maybe different approaches to really throw off a scorer. It appears home teams have won 47% of their conference games in the American. That is the lowest in the nation. UAB really odd stat. 27 at home. 90 on the road in conference play. Do you have a theory on why road teams are so successful in the American?
[00:30:38] Speaker A: It's kind of an odd stat and I don't think I've ever seen anything like it before. The only thing I could contribute it to is a lot of these teams having new guys and probably oblivious to the environment they're going into. So they don't going with a preconceived conception of this is a tough place to play. You know, they don't know.
So I think that might have something to do with it.
Whereas in the past, and like I said, I'm kind of in a unique situation because I was at a. I was at another institution where we would come into Wichita State. Sometimes you're psyched out before you even step foot on the floor. Like, man, this is going to be a really, really tough environment.
If you're in a situation where you're just oblivious and you don't know, maybe that's what's best. It's better not to know what type of environment you're going into. You might have, you know, where you're not trying to prepare your guys mentally. Like, man, this is going to be a tough environment.
They just don't know.
[00:31:43] Speaker B: And Kenton spent two seasons as an assistant at the University of Tulsa, so that would be his previous history with.
With Wichita State. You mentioned this early, and I thought it'd be worth. It's worth coming back to because it's maybe kind of faded from people's memories. Wichita State lost its top nine scores from last year, so this is a total overhaul. They've played so well over the last month. It's not top of mind anymore. Why do you think this team came together as quickly as it did with an almost entirely new cast?
[00:32:12] Speaker A: I would say this one, a group of guys that kind of complement each other, has something to do with that. But I wouldn't minimize the effect of having a guy like TJ Williams who's been in the program, Joy, who's been in the program, Henry, who's been in the program.
Where Guy. Just three guys. Just having three guys who's been in the program to be in the locker room to help the other guys navigate through what's to come after a win, after a loss, road trips.
I think those guys played a huge part in bringing it in, helping other guys gel together.
Even though those guys are young players having any experience to deal with the coaching staff more so the coaching staff than anything helping those guys. And when you have the right group of people, guys who are all coachable and want to get better and want to prove themselves at this level, I do think those returners played a huge deal getting those other guys to jail.
[00:33:29] Speaker B: And those three had all been in the program previously. What's your favorite March Madness memory?
[00:33:36] Speaker A: Oh, man, it has to be the shot went out 20 years ago. Can you believe it? It's been 20 years since I made that shot in the Sweet 16 to go to the Elite Eight. When I was at Texas, we were playing West Virginia, and it came down to a shot at the buzzard to win. That has to be, I mean, hands down, my Favorite March memory.
[00:33:59] Speaker B: 2006 Sweet 16. University of Texas beat West Virginia. I thought that would be your answer, but I thought I'd just give you a chance in case something had happened in the intervening years.
Wichita State opens American Conference tournament play that's 4pm Saturday on ESPN2. That's a semifinal. Shockers need two wins to advance to the NCAA tournament. Kenton Paulino, thank you for your time.
[00:34:21] Speaker A: All right, thank you.
[00:34:37] Speaker B: Thank you for listening to the Roundhouse podcast courtesy of Wichita State University Strategic Communications. We encourage you to rate, review and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can find more roundhouse
[email protected] Hawkins gonna go to work on Washington and it was dug out of there by Dijon Cortez. Lob to Beverly seven point lead at the under eight. Timeout here at Charles Cook Arena.
