Speaker 1 00:00:10 Hello, welcome to the roundhouse podcast. This is Paul Soro of Wichita state university strategic communications. Thank you for listening today. We're gonna talk about cross country with the JK gold classic coming up. We have Ben flowers with us and Clayton Duche. Ben is a senior. He is from Jerseyville, Illinois. He finished seventh in the 2019 American athletic conference cross country championship 17th at the end of NCAA, Midwest regional that year. He also won the JK gold classic in 2019 last spring when Wichita state won the, uh, American outdoor men's track and field championship. Ben placed fourth in the 10,000 meters Clayton. Also a senior. He is from Washington, Missouri. Last spring. He won the 3000 meter steeple chase in the AAC outdoor meet and his eighth placed finish in the 5,000 meters clenched the team title for the shockers at, at CSN stadium. It's big because it clenched the title in cuz it was there first as an AAC member. Uh, Clayton also earned all conference cross country honors in 2019 Clayton. Let's start with that. What do you remember about clenching the, you know, finishing in the, in the 10,000 to get those final points?
Speaker 2 00:01:22 The 10,000?
Speaker 1 00:01:23 Yeah. In the steeple chase. I'm sorry. Yeah. In the, in the
Speaker 2 00:01:27 5,005,000. Oh man, it was, I, I knew it was me and Ben and Trey were in good hands. So the pressure was a little bit kind of off. Like I knew if one of us underperformed the other one to be right there behind. So it was just, I just stuck, stuck my nose in it. I didn't want it to be tactical cause I know how fast the other guys are. So I just went out hard when I know I was capable of fitness wise and I just paid off. I just, I was waiting for the Tulsa guys to move and I tried to stick on 'em and I was very conscious of what place I was in and I knew what I needed to maintain. And I was hoping if I maintained that base, Ben and Trey would be right there as well. And fortunately they were, we went 8, 9, 10. So I mean, it was just, it was just a great time that whole weekend and that, that captain it off was just one of, I'll never forget that
Speaker 1 00:02:19 Houston is just a great track and field program, lot great in the sprints. Great. In the jumps, put it into perspective for people who maybe aren't familiar with that. Why was beating Houston, such a tough goal and why was it so such a big deal for Wichita state?
Speaker 2 00:02:33 I mean, coach Bo always ingrains it in our heads, how we want to be a championship program. They were in the Missouri valley. Um, and we've been, we've always been right there in the American, but Houston was just like, obviously Houston's coached by multiple Olympians, Carl Lewis and Barrell and they have Olympians on their team currently. So we just like it's, it's no small task. So that's how I would put it into perspective for anyone that's not well versed in tracking field. So that like beating Oly, beating a team consisting of Olympians is just an honor in general, but we know that they're gonna be ready for us next year. So we gotta can't let our guard down. Just gotta keep, keep pushing.
Speaker 1 00:03:13 It was, it was a good, good weekend at CNA stadium for the shockers back to cross country, the shock shocker finished second in the American meet last fall, they returned three of the six shockers who finished in the top 20 of that race. Bryce Merriman is back Trey Rio, San Clayton are back. Ben flowers is also back after not running cross country last fall. Uh, let's start there. Talk about the goals and the expectations after such a strong fall last year.
Speaker 3 00:03:38 Uh, yeah, I'd say, you know, we've got a, we had a hard team to follow the last year. We had a, a pretty solid team. You know, me not being a part of it, acting more of a supportive role for, for the team, uh, with lack of better words. But, um, I, I think this is a great group, um, with the short or with the few workouts that we've had so far, we've really kind of shown both, you know, to hunter and that to ourselves that, you know, we're capable of doing something great this year. Um, I'm, I'm really looking forward to this year. And I think, you know, Wichita state, like, like with our outdoor season, we're gonna, we're gonna turn some heads and some price in people. So I think, I think we've got a good, good group this year.
Speaker 1 00:04:16 So there's a countdown clock in the team room or countdown chart. How many days till conference, how many days till regional does that? What's the significance of that?
Speaker 2 00:04:26 It just shows how much time we need to prepare. And like we just know we, it gives us like an Indi, a visual representation of like, time's not standing still. We gotta just keep grind and keep pushing and like, it's not gonna do itself. We gotta just keep, keep the hammer down and keep pushing hard workouts, keep doing the right things, little things, sleeping enough, drinking enough water, putting in the miles. So it's just kind of a good visual representation to, um, keep us honest. I would say
Speaker 1 00:04:57 September 3rd is JK gold classic out of Augusta Kansas four mile Creek resort. That will be the first, first meet of the, uh, of the fall for, for Wichita state, for most of the teams there, I guess, uh, take us through the preparations. What do you do during the summer to, to get ready to go? And, and I'm sure it's kind of a gradual ramping up process. Ben, describe your summer, your summer workload for
Speaker 3 00:05:20 Us. Uh, my summer was, uh, a little different than I'd say most of the guys the summer is usually a time for, for what we call base and that's just running miles running a lot of miles. Um, it's a lot of double runs, so running twice a day. Um, just, just really trying to build that foundation to where, when we start, uh, when we meet again to start preparing for the season where we start doing workouts. So it's really just to prepare us for that. Um, I think overall the, the, the team has, has been great this summer. This is one of the, the, like I said, the, the best groups that we've had. And I think the work this summer as a, as a whole has been really inspiring. Um, a lot of, a lot of my work this summer has been on, um, recovering and, and making sure that I'm prepared.
Speaker 3 00:06:08 So a lot of preventative work, obviously, you know, I've had a history of injury, so making sure I'm doing the small things right. To prepare myself to where I don't, um, have any of those flareups again, just in feeling healthy for the year. So, um, maybe not as high on the mileage this summer as I'd like, but it was a lot of, um, physical therapy, a lot of stretch, a lot of strength, anding, a lot of mobility type work just to prepare myself to where, um, I I'm able to make it through the season without having some of those injuries flare back up
Speaker 1 00:06:39 Clayton, describe a typical week. How many miles do you try to try to get in?
Speaker 2 00:06:43 Um, well I, I'm kind of a quality over quantity type guy. I don't like my body kind of shuts off after 75, but this is my last is my last go around. So I want to try and push it a little bit. So I tried to hit 70 to 75. Um, like I said, or like Ben said mainly a time for base, but, um, around mid-July I start throwing in a little bit of harder efforts maybe once a week and then twice a week to kind of prime my body. So I'm ready for whenever the first week we get back at it, we're doing workouts, so I'm not sore. I'm don't I reduce the risk of injury. So that's, that's typically how my summer goes.
Speaker 1 00:07:21 Do you have a favorite route that you work out on over the summer around Wichita?
Speaker 3 00:07:28 Um, we have a, the red bud path, if that's what you mean, like the
Speaker 1 00:07:32 Specific, yeah. I'm just interested if you, cause sometimes you get out. I know you'll do you know the dirt roads maybe outside of town or if you do stick around campus, what, where do you like to run?
Speaker 3 00:07:41 I think my favorite is just to go anywhere off campus where we can find some dirt roads. Um, just around here though, that red bud path is pretty reliable. We like to go out there and get off the concrete and get on some, some gravel. So if we're not driving off campus, we're usually either heading that route or, um, some other way that we can finally get off, get off the concrete, cuz it gets a little boring, just the same routes every day. So we try to mix it up.
Speaker 1 00:08:06 Sure. Clayton, how about you? Do you have a favorite, favorite
Speaker 2 00:08:08 Route? Uh, yeah, I like, I, I like soft surface running a lot, so red Bud's one of my favorites, but as far as scenic, I love going like downtown on the river path and then like through downtown. So like scenery wise, that's probably my favorite. Um, there's also, uh, down by Southeast high school, I do it more in the summer versus uh, I might make that suggestion for where we can go off campus this year, but um, there's like a couple like horse ranches and like you can see all the horses and stuff it's soft surface as well is just like really nice scenery down there and then finally find gravel and stuff. So that's one of mine it's probably downtown. And then, uh, Southeast dirt roads, I would say,
Speaker 1 00:08:51 Do you listen to music while you're running?
Speaker 2 00:08:54 I don't, I, I kind of don't like EarPods. I don't, I don't like holding my phone very much and like sweating on it and stuff, but um, and I don't really, I'm not too fond of, uh, EarPods in my ears when I'm running. Uh, I just feel like they're gonna slip out, but
Speaker 1 00:09:08 Sure. Ben, how about you?
Speaker 3 00:09:10 Yeah. If, if I'm going by myself, I'll ill take, I'll take my phone and I have like a little Fanny back type thing that I, I strap on and I'll throw my phone in there and AirPods fit in my ears. Well, so I don't know why they're slipping on ears <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:09:24 They don't actually slip out my ears, but like, it just feels like they're about scared it, like that's, that's a, that's a big, uh, big problem to have for if 200 bucks if
Speaker 3 00:09:34 You
Speaker 2 00:09:34 Stop on it or
Speaker 3 00:09:35 Something. Yeah. Yeah. If you lose those, that's not a, yeah, that's not an easy loss
Speaker 2 00:09:39 That's I like it would fall outta my ear and go down the storm drain
Speaker 1 00:09:42 Or something. I don't wanna lose them. Ben, what's your favorite running song?
Speaker 3 00:09:45 Oh, running song. Hmm. That's a good question. Uh, I don't know if I have a favorite song, but I think any, any rap song that kinda gets me a little fired up, I like, um, depends on kind of what I'm doing. So if I'm doing a long run, just kind of the same pace, I'll listen to almost anything, but if I'm doing something a little, uh, quicker and kind of some, some hard effort than something that gets me a little more pumped up and are more intentional on, on those songs and we'll, we'll look for a specific genre or something like that. So I don't know a specific song. Now, let me think. Maybe get
Speaker 1 00:10:25 Back to that. So the JK gold classic coming up, describe how that fits into the whole arc of the season. What you're trying to get accomplished that, that Saturday, and then how that fits into the rest of the rest of the cross country schedule.
Speaker 2 00:10:38 Uh, I just think it's a good way to build into the season. Like it gets everyone back to racing again, cuz most people haven't been well with the exception of a couple internationals that race late in Spain or um, wherever they're from. Um, for most of us it's kind of just like a building back into a hard effort and a race environment. It's not a full eight K, which is nice. So it kind of helps like a gradual build. So we're ready and our confidence is up for something a little bit longer and it helps that it's in the home home course. So it kind of, I, I don't know about that. I'm sure I speak for both of us, but like I really like the energy at JK goal cuz like all the high school local teams are around, like other college teams are around, um, the track teams out supporting us. It's just like, it's kind of like, I don't know how to say it. Like, like, like a Nebraska football game, like everyone's about Nebraska football, um, Oklahoma football. It's kind of like our version of that. Like everyone's around I guess.
Speaker 3 00:11:39 Yeah, sure. No, you nailed it. It's definitely, it's a big, I'd say confidence booster and then overall just like a team morale, um, we can't get kind of a feel of, uh, our supporters, you know, believe it or not. Our cross country team actually does have some, some supporters, um, um, just comparing it to kind of other sports that, you know, draw on pretty big crowds, but for, for JK gold and some of our home meets, we, we do bring in some, some good support groups. Um, so yeah, I, I think it's just a, a great way to kind of kick off, kick off the season and um, kind of get our heads right. Um, and get a good kind of understanding of where we're gonna stack up. I don't, I think the Jacob gold meet isn't always about results or, or times, but more just kind of getting a feel for, for how our season might go and how, what we need to maybe work on or, or, um, things like that. So
Speaker 1 00:12:34 Kirk hunter, the coach always talks a lot about, uh, running as a pack packing up, uh, which is always kind of, I think, interesting thing. I'm not sure that everybody thinks of cross country as a team sport. There's some, there's obviously an individual aspect to it too, but you it's important to help each other out. And those kind of things describe that from your standpoint, what's the goal from a team aspect in the JK gold classic. How are you thinking about helping teammates get through that?
Speaker 3 00:13:00 Yeah, I think JK gold is a little bit different than other meets. Like you said, um, it is kind of ran as a pack race as opposed to where other races throughout the season, it's, you know, everyone run, you know, what they need to do to, to be successful. I think JK gold is a, is a good way for maybe some of the, the younger guys, some of the freshmen to get an understanding of how to run across country race because it's, it's, it's pretty difficult to run, you know, six kilometers, eight kilometers as, as fast as you can, you know, that that's, that's hard to, to pace. Um, so I think that's kind of a big reason for that pack running. It gives, it gives some of the younger guys a, a good, um, understanding of, of what an AK or what a six K uh, race looks like and what it feels like, you know, because, you know, you have high schoolers and, you know, I was, I was a victim of this as well, is, is coming in, uh, as a, as a freshman and only running three miles for my cross country races and then bumping up to a six K it was, it was a big kind of transition and it was just, it took me a while to, to kind of figure out what I'm capable of and how I need to approach the races in terms of pace and who I should be running with.
Speaker 3 00:14:10 So I, I think the reason for that is just giving some of the younger guys and even, you know, some of the older guys too, that, that confidence that, you know, we can run as a pack and we can stick together. That's not gonna be the end of the world. You know, some people might trail off, some people might, you know, speed ahead, but it's, it's all about maintaining a pace that you understand and you know, how to kind of check the, what the signs are of your body, of, of when to make a move or when to slow down or whatever. So hopefully we're not slowing down, hopefully we're speeding up. So
Speaker 1 00:14:42 <laugh>, is there someone on the team who takes a real vocal leadership in that way? That's kind of, you know, really encouraging people?
Speaker 3 00:14:49 Um,
Speaker 2 00:14:50 Yeah. I, I think a lot of 'em like typically, like me and Ben are pretty like quiet individuals. I would say we care about the welfare of the team, but we're just not quite as vocal, but I think we kind of step into a new role this year being the longest lasting people at Wichita state on the team. Um, so I'm trying to stick up a little bit and like speak up more than I usually do. So I would probably consider myself one of 'em. Uh, Trey's very vocal too. Um, I know Ben's busy with practicum and what else do you do? I, I get confused.
Speaker 3 00:15:24 Yeah. Um, a little bit hard to, to kind of be around the team this year. Um, pretty busy schedule, but I definitely have, you know, a great support system with the team here. There's guys like, you know, Clayton, Trey that are really kind of stepping into that leadership role and really helping the team out and, you know, being there for the guys that, you know, that are getting used to this, this college running life that's, you know, so hard for, um, so many people. Um, so yeah, I think honestly we all kind of take that role, but definitely, you know, some of the older guys, like, like you said, Clayton does a great job. Um, Trey is really stepping into that leadership role as well. And then
Speaker 2 00:16:03 I'm, I'm starting to see it and even like our sophomores this year. So like Cesar and Eric and Riley, those guys are starting to develop a little bit of leadership characteristics. They, they know how we do things. They want to be successful. And they're just kind of doing a good job of showing the freshmen this year, like ways around things. And it's just all coming together. Like it's just like hierarchy, just like we're just teaching them and they're teaching them. And then it's, it's developing a good culture and, uh, keeping it that way too.
Speaker 1 00:16:36 So Ben, you came back from the, uh, from the hip injury last year, indoor and then ran an outdoor. Also, this will be your first cross country meet, coming up in, in a couple weeks. Uh, and you missed almost two years. You were out for a significant amount of time. What, what kept you going? What kept you here at Wichita state and, and running?
Speaker 3 00:16:54 Uh, yeah, it, it was definitely a hard time to, to be honest, just this team, um, you know, coming to practice every day with a injury and knowing that, you know, I, I'm not able to practice today, not knowing when I'll be able to return was, was very hard and it took a toll. It definitely took a toll. Um, but you know, I have an amazing support system here with all my, my teammates, coaches, um, even some mental health services here on campus that I really, I took advantage of and used those resources and nearly helped me to get back to where I'm at. So just in short, you know, the Wichita state, honestly, the they've they've been great. Um, and by that, I mean, you know, everyone, who's kind of been a part of this journey with me getting back, you know, I I've never felt alone in any sense. I always felt wanted and, and needed and appreciated by my team. So the team culture was great and extremely supportive the whole way. It was never like, um, you know, we need to get you back right now. It was, you know, kind of make sure that you're healthy, that you know, that we're, you're able to contribute and whenever you're ready, let's, let's go for it. And I definitely felt that that was something that really helped me get back.
Speaker 1 00:18:07 So Kurt Connor was impressed with how quickly you did come back, uh, last, you know, I guess late last winter, early last spring, indoor, what kind of training were you able to do and how did you get, get back to the level that you did?
Speaker 3 00:18:18 Yeah, so it was, it was experimental for a while. There was a lot of trial and error. Um, the, the, one of the biggest things, you know, and it sounds silly was yoga. Um, something that I was lacking and that I didn't, couldn't really seem to get, uh, from physical therapy was, was this kind of balance of, uh, strengthening and stabilizing and, and getting some more mobility. So, you know, I say yoga, but there's many other things that, that are really helped, but it, it really seemed to be like a mobility issue and a, and a, uh, strengthening issue. And, you know, I spent so much time, you know, in the, in the physical and, and, um, with PT and doing things like that, you know, not to say that that wasn't helping, but it, it was just a very odd injury that, you know, I, I went to several different doctors to different surgeons and not that they weren't hopeless, but weren't, um, I guess certain that I will recover in a, um, appropriate time until a time to make the next season.
Speaker 3 00:19:26 Um, so a lot of different, um, processes kind of went into it, but yeah, one of the biggest things was just getting more flexible. Um, and then from there trying to get stronger with weights and then kind of step back into running, which kind of sounds a little bit backwards, but I had to kind of start from square one and, and fix all the, the kind of the technical and mechanical aspects of, you know, running and, and make it my, my training and my weight lifting a little more functional to where, um, my, my injury was, was almost supported. So I, I think just a combination of different things. Um, and then, um, just really focusing on recovery and rest and doing all the little things, right. Like Clayton said earlier, sleep nutrition, things like that, that, um, I wasn't necessarily getting before that. I, you know, I always knew of, but really kind of this injury kind of hammered in, you know, how important those little things are.
Speaker 1 00:20:22 So before the JK gold classic, the team will go to, uh, near junction city for a retreat, uh, you practice team building activities. What's the value of, of time like that with the, with the whole team kind of away from campus?
Speaker 2 00:20:35 Uh, I, I personally loved the retreat. Honestly. I was kind of bummed out cuz of COVID that we didn't get to go. We still made an effort to do whatever we could, but I mean, there was only so much you could do. We kind of built back up. We did something on campus two years ago, like in the heavy midst of it. And then we went over to Nickerson campus and had like a day in their park, which was better. I would say we got to like get out of town a little bit, cause somewhere new. Uh, but it wasn't quite the same, but I'm excited to head out there and do that because it just, there's just so many activities and it really like gets you to know everybody on the team and you're just, you're stuck with them there for multiple days. So you really have no choice, but, uh, get to know which is a good thing. I don't mean that in a bad way, but, um, it's really good for our team culture. I think
Speaker 1 00:21:25 Ben, what's your view on the, on the value of that kind of a kind of a few days?
Speaker 3 00:21:29 Oh yeah, I think, I think it's huge. It's, it's a really great way. Like Clayton said that to get to know everyone my freshman year, you know, I was a little, I don't wanna say shy, but I wasn't really, uh, one to go out and, you know, introduce myself and, and, um, try to try to meet new people. So that was a great way to get to know everyone through these different activities. You know, we play kickball, we do a canoe race, we play volleyball. It's really, um, just a fun weekend and you really get to know your teammates well, and I think that's just such a great way to kick off the year, making sure that, you know, everyone's kind of on the same page and everyone knows each other well. And I think it just, you know, translates into how we compete. You know, if, if, if you're comfortable around your teammates and you know, a little bit more about 'em, you know, we're just gonna compete even better together. So I think it, it's a way of, um, kind of translating into the season of, of how we kind of cooperate and work together. So it really just helps us kind of bond.
Speaker 1 00:22:30 So Clayton let's kind of bring it full circle. We'll go back to the, the steeple chase, which is a unique event. Uh, how did you get into that, that particular event?
Speaker 2 00:22:38 Uh, well, I kind of have a, a rough entry into that, so I kind of just did it once in high school, just, just cuz I could. And we were like our coach and athletic director said we could go like to travel for a meet in high school, which not every high school gets to do that. So we went to the KU relays and I tried it and um, I didn't run very fast around like 6 30, 2 for two K and my form was terrible. I just kind of went and did it, but I thought it was really fun. And like I've generally been pretty flexible. Like I've had a lot of good mobility in my hips and everything. So it was just something that not a lot of other runners have. So I think if I could just get this technique down, I could be really great in this and my freshman year, I, that was a recruiting thing for me.
Speaker 2 00:23:25 Like I told the coaches that were interested in that and pretty much every university that I know of is looking for steep pulls, cuz not everyone wants to do it cuz they're like, oh I'll get hurt. I'll do this. I'll do that. Which is understandable. But honestly you get hurt doing anything in tracking field. So you might as well do something where you have a high chance of success. So I, um, tried it freshman year, had a gr had a good cross country season at Lindenwood. And then I was just doing hurdles one day, practicing, gearing up and I fell and I got a concussion. I was out for five weeks. I tripped on the hurdle, hit my head on the track that was at for five weeks built up. I ended up running 9 23, my freshman year. I didn't let that discourage me or scare me away cuz like I said, anything could happen.
Speaker 2 00:24:10 So I just kind of stuck with it. And then I got injured for a while. Similar length to Ben's injury is probably a little bit longer on and off, but um, so I just didn't do it that year and then COVID hit. So I went two full years without doing the steeple at all. And I went back and I ended up running 9 0 3 as a PR um, last year and then Ethan Coover won the steeple in Tampa last conference. And I was like, I want that to be me. And then fortunately it worked out for this year, but that's kind of my steeple story. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:24:45 Well, that's a good one. What's the, you know, how, how do you get over that, uh, fear or how do you get over that hesitation to, to do that kind of an event?
Speaker 2 00:24:54 Um, well honestly it's just my support system. My, my dad was really the one adamant about it. He's the one he's like you have this ability that limited other people have like the flexibility and mobility. Um, you can, you shouldn't let that get to you. And everyone else like is, was confident in my abilities. So I'm like, why shouldn't I be confident in my own abilities? So I just kind of, I got that ingrained and kept reminding myself of that and that's just kind of what propelled me to not really give up on it. Cuz I got, I had a freak thing happen. It hasn't happened again since, so knock on wood, but
Speaker 1 00:25:29 Okay. Let's wrap it up. Favorite book about running. I'm springing this on you. So if you need to take a second,
Speaker 3 00:25:37 The, I don't read much. So I'm gonna probably take your, is the only book that I've really read about running is the unbroken. I don't know if you've heard about that one. Sure. Um, really kind of encapsulates like what determination and what, um, hard work looks like. You know, the, the stuff that that guy went through. I can't remember his name off the top of my head.
Speaker 1 00:25:56 Laura Hilden brand is the author. Right?
Speaker 3 00:25:58 Mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah, but the guy was about Louis. Yeah. Louis zine. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, that, that guy had some, had some hardships. If, if you know, that's one thing like I, I wanna, um, if I want to act or um, say that I've been over some difficult things with the injury, now that guy is went through some stuff. So
Speaker 1 00:26:20 Yeah. Said in world war II, he was a, he was a prisoner of war, right? Yeah. I remember that. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> well, that's a good one. If you've read that one. You've you've done well, Clayton. How about you? Do you have a favorite running book that
Speaker 2 00:26:30 Not kind of in the same boat? I don't, I don't read a whole, a whole bunch. Um, uh, once a runner's all right. Um, but I'd probably still go with unbroken as well. Like I, that story's kind of unbeatable, I would say
Speaker 4 00:26:56 Hi, this is Rick Neuma president at Wichita state university. Check out the latest episode of the forward together podcast. Each episode, I sit down with different guests from shocker nation to celebrate the vision and mission of Wichita state university. Listen, wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 1 00:27:25 Thank you for listening to the roundhouse podcast, courtesy of Wichita state university's strategic communications. We appreciate your time. We encourage you to rate reviews, subscribe wherever you get your podcast, such as on iTunes or Google play, you can find more roundhouse
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Speaker 5 00:27:46 And they let him pass it up court. And then he gets picked off along three by Pango. No good. One second. It's over it's over and Wichita state has beaten the number one team in the nation to go to the sweet 16 go crazy Wichita. I know you are.
